“Power differential” in fantasy literature

From a thread criticizing Steven Erikson. This is my comment.


I’m weirdly expecting to love deeply Erikson, but I still haven’t read it.

But I’ve read an infinite amount of forums thread and reviews that I almost feel like I know his books better than some readers who dabbed it.

What is interesting is that he IS the author to hate or love. While you usually find some consensus about other authors (Jordan can be hated or loved as well, but there’s consensus about his best books, his flaws and so on), with Erikson you can read everything, and then the opposite.

So in a comment you read that his characters are cardboard cutouts, and in another that his characters are wonderful, each perfectly defined, with his flaws and everything. Some say that characters are his weakest point, and some say that characters are his main strength.

Sometimes, I also figured out the consensus. For example this problem about comparing him to D&D.

I’ve figured out that this isn’t because of the language used or the target of the novels, but mostly because of a “deux ex machina” approach.

For example, with Martin you have a story about men against other men. Political struggles, factions pitted one against the other. So the plot develops depending on its premises.

Whereas Erikson has what in MMO you call “power differential”. The world is more permeated with magic. Men aren’t all alike. This is why Erikson is compared to the Iliad. Gods walk along men, the power of certain guys is much greater than a pawn. There are interests and plots playing at different levels.

For some readers this “breaks the rules”. Because there are “deux ex machina” characters that are too powerful and so bend the plot without respecting the implicit rules within the plot itself. While for other readers this is the FUN. Because it’s extremely interesting to watch the relationships, behaviors and consequences when these different powers meet. The fireworks! To watch how men fuck the much greater powers, to see the cards on the table being thrown in the air and so on.

So for some readers this resembles to D&D in the sense that it’s in the D&D that you have those normal peons in the village who run the farm, and then the 20th level warrior who has a shitton of health points. Or the mage who can split the earth in two.

Where Martin deals with characters and plots that all sit on one level, all intertwined together (that’s why they call him master of weave), Erikson does something similar, but on the vertical level. Where a lot depends of how much you (the POV) know. Because the cards on the table never stay the same and you constantly discover something that makes you reconsider the whole thing. There’s always someone who knows more, there’s always something lurking in the shadows of the knowledge that is plotting behind your shoulders. And who believes to be leading, is instead lead.

It’s like Martin is the master of x-axis and Erikson master of y-axis. And what you like depends a lot on your preferences, and then expectations.

This is something I think I figured out. What I haven’t figured out instead is how to rate Erikson as a *writer*. Not the quality of plot or characters. Just the writing itself (skipping the first book).

Some say that Erikson is comparable to Martin, some say he’s a notch below but still at the very top of the genre, some say he’s not even comparable.

So, for those of you who think Martin is a much better writer, who are those writers that you would comprise between them?

Dwarf Fortress new version out

After almost a year of full-time development, the new version is released.

Lots of stuff probably changed. The most notable new features are the multiple z-axis levels and variable environments.

I was a bit worried about the z-axis levels because they could mess too much an already complicated game, especially because it’s simply impossible to present intuitively “height” when you have an ASCII interface. But this new feature doesn’t seem too intrusive and once you figure out how it works you can navigate through it easily without feeling baffled. The new environments instead are *awesome*. Instead of having always the same default outdoor layout (and predictable gameplay development), this time the environments depend on where you pick the location for the settlement. So not always you have a cliff face, or a river. But then you also have increasing possibilities, like digging down. It’s much more a sandbox now. More freedom and variation. New powerful toys to figure out.

I’m still trying to relearn the whole thing, so I can’t comment much more.

Just two short tips:

Shift+< and Shift+> To move through z-axis levels

To dig down: (d)esignate a “downward stairway”, go down one level, (d)esignate an “upward stairway” and a dwarf will then appear in the lower level

Now if only I could figure out why I can’t use any seed on my farm plot…

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Pretty covers

If you never read Glen Cook’s Black Company, then wait another couple weeks.

When you become passionate about certain kinds of books you also get emotional about nice editions and covers.

In this case, a new omnibus edition of the first three books (the three best) is coming out (the 13 November) with a pretty cover:

.

ADDENDUM: I found a blog post about the artist. Name is Raymond Swanland.

A plea: can we have a new edition of the whole Malazan saga (Steven Erikson, 10 books) with covers done by the same artist? That would be absolutely awesome.

By the way, “Reaper’s Gale” US cover isn’t so bad if you look at it in its original format (browse around for some pretty dragons and a Warcraft’s blood elf). Imho he has a too “clean” style to fit well Erikson.

George Martin on “Song of Ice and Fire” delay

This is the most recent comment (23 October) I was able to find that Martin wrote about the delay of the fifth book in the series, probably the most awaited book in any fantasy series:

I haven’t lost my enthusiasm for writing A DANCE WITH DRAGONS.

I have, however, lost my enthusiasm for answering questions about it.

And I have REALLY lost my enthusiasm for people writing that I am “not a young man” and speculating about my possible death.

I am not working “only sporadically” on DANCE. But it’s not simple equation: x many hours does not necessarily produce X many pages. Oh, sure, some writers can do that. Not me.

For me, especially on this book, there’s a lot of rewriting (and restructuring) involved. I write a chapter, sometimes several, decide later it isn’t working, go back and rewrite and cut it all out.

These are aspects of the creative process that are NOT FOR PUBLIC VIEW. I am wrestling with my story, my characters, and my muse, and that’s one wrestling match you won’t see on Pay Per View.

Someday I will die, and I hope you’re right and it’s thirty years from now. When that happens, maybe my heirs will decide to publish a book of fragments and deleted chapters, and you’ll all get to read about Tyrion’s meeting with the Shrouded Lord. It’s a swell, spooky, evocative chapter, but you won’t read it in DANCE. It took me down a road I decided I did not want to travel, so I went back and ripped it out. So, unless I change my mind again, it’s going the way of the draft of LORD OF THE RINGS where Tolkien has Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin reach the Prancing Pony and meet… a weatherbeaten old hobbit ranger named “Trotter.”

And that’s about as much as I’m going to say on this subject. Which is probably too much. I guarantee you, I will now get a bunch of letters from those who want to read this deleted chapter. (No. Thank you, but no).

I’m working on it.

It will be done when it’s done. When it is, I’ll let you know.

Why isn’t that enough?

I posted it on Q23 and it spawned a discussion. This is my opinion:


I think the problem is the diversion, not that Martin can’t write anymore.

Let me make a lame example, take “Lost” third series when they went to tell the tale of two new castaways. The audience dropped sharply and the writers had to cut that plot entirely.

It’s not because that episode was written badly, it’s because it simply betrayed expectations. When you push a “main” plot, then leave it hanging while you go in a completely different direction, people will be pissed. Especially if a long wait (and anticipation building up) is involved.

People wait and wait for the book to come out, then they discover the plot didn’t budge, or was left hanging while it drifted into another direction/distraction. And it means another wait.

This doesn’t work in any media and pisses off people.

Take for example Marvel’s “House of M” crossover, or Glen Cook’s Black Company for something more in theme, or even the first book of Jordan’s WoT. The main plot is resolved within the novel, but before the end more seeds are planted that keep the story moving.

A reader gets both gratification out of the resolved plots and mysteries, and the curiosity and anticipation to keep going and wanting more.

But if you break those expectations, don’t move the plot onward, or delay it to introduce a completely different one while people were awaiting development of the first, well, the formula fails and readers betray you in the same way you betrayed their expectations.

The MAIN mistake, here, was made by the editor himself, who convinced Martin to split the book. If he had forced Martin to keep it as one book, and cut down the word count and superfluous storylines, AFFC could have been a worthy book, on par with the other three.

P.S.
Of the whole series I’ve only read the first prologue. Still, my analysis is precise.

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This blog has been hijacked

I’m still wondering what to do with the site. No decision made, so everything will remain uncertain.

For a while I had an idea to open a different, smaller blog site, in my native language, to write about the fantasy books I’m reading. But it went nowhere and sat there.

For now I’ll reopen this site, probably updated sporadically, and when updated only about those fantasy books. So a new theme.

In the last couple of months I almost completely replaced my attention to MMOs with the attention to good ole fantasy book (and there’s a network of blogs comparable to MMOs). I tend to be obsessive with my passions. I quit reading fantasy for almost ten years. Now I’m back and in the meantime so many good things came out. I’m going to ate em all. CHOMP.

On F13 there was a pertinent discussion:

Johny Cee: I think a big issue, in the last 10 or 15 years, is the huge amount of chaff to wade through in fantasy publishing. The scifi chaff (Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.) has mostly died down. TSR/Wizards of the Coast continues to produce huge amounts of marginal quality work that floods the market, not to mention the look-alike books churned out for the same demographic and the former TSR authors who now churn out medoicre non-branded stuff (Salvatore, the Elminster douchebag).

There are shittons of great quality fantasy. It’s just marketed like shit, packaged like shit, and promoted like shit.

HRose: That’s why we have the internet ;)

I stopped reading fantasy for that reason. I couldn’t read through 500 books to find 5 great ones. That’s a problem with books in general because it’s hard to have a decent idea of what you are going to find.

The internet is the reason why I’m now back into fantasy. In about a month I gathered a wish list of quality stuff. I know what to expect and I’m sure that I’ll enjoy it. I can adjust my expectations quite well.

It works. There was a time when I read fantasy along with two other friends. Our entire knowledge was what we aggregated from our experiences, and the books we read were just those we saw in the library and picked randomly (because of a cover, or the name of a series, or the synopsis).

Today you don’t have to read *everything* if you want to find something worthy. The internet is incredibly useful when you need to prune an infinite list of books. Pick the best. There’s not enough time in the world to wade through crap and figure out by yourself it’s crap. While official reviewers aren’t trustable (same way of game reviews) there’s a big network of specialized blogs and forums where there are people who read just everything, for you, and help you avoid that crap and handpick the gems.

I gathered enough knowledge during this month that I can now talk pertinently and competently about some books without having read one line of them. (and I’ll demonstrate this shortly)

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Psh… I’m not back

If you see the site being up again, or this entry appearing in your old, stinky RSS aggregator… DON’T PANIC.

I’m not back.

I just need to fish some old entries for the next couple of days.

These months I’m also reading through Steven Erikson’s epic fantasy saga (10 books, 7 out now), then think if it could be made into a mmorpg.

They say it’s the Best Ever and the finest and most complex and intricate worldbuiliding ever made.

Ian Cameron Esslemont: I (and Steve) both believe that Malaz is vastly different from the general popular fantasy series of the genre. We deliberately set out to achieve this goal of convention challenge, contravention, and reversal. It is deliberately anti-heroic in a genre heretofore reserved for heroic indulgences all this because we have faith in the intelligence and discrimination of genre readers to recognize when they are not being talked (or written) down to. In many ways the entire series is an extended critical study of the genre itself how it works, why it works, how far can it be pushed to evolve? But all that is sub-textual and academic; foremost the books must and do remain a damn hair-raising read. If that falls down then it will all fall down (and deservedly so)

Erikson: The Malazan Book of the Fallen is a compiled history, warts and all. It’s not above brazen manipulation of events and facts, because, well, that’s the nature of the beast. By this, do I mean it as a way of squirming out of things? No, you’d all never let me get off that easily. I just love the feel of an uncertain history, as all histories are. If none of you had any questions, then I’d be worried.

Erikson: The second question: oh the sparks were all negative things, frustrations at the genre’s confounding predictability. Wanting to write something in fantasy I myself would like to read (and not just me, but Cam as well — the one reader who stays in my head as I write). Wanting to kick the tropes around, wanting to get rid of that endless quasi-medieval class-conscious blueblood crap. Wanting a fantasy world as multicultural as this one (the preponderance of white-skinned heroes and blonde princesses … man, what century is this?). Wanting a fantasy world with a history beyond the Dark Lord of three hundred years ago who’s found a rock that will help him rise again and do, oh, bad things; a world with geology and geography, etc.

Sure, there’s some good stuff out there, but it wasn’t enough. Maybe still isn’t.

Erikson: I probably play around with subtext a lot more than your run of the mill fantasy novel (at least those I’ve slogged through out of boredom or some similar reason); but the better ones out there do that as well. I was told, long ago, that the stranger the world you’re writing about, the clearer and cleaner the language must be — ‘windexed language’ as it used to be called (and maybe still is). But I found a way around that, by making certain characters players of language — in dialogue and monologue, and with those I can let loose on the linguistic games, puns, etc I can play with self-consciousness and metaphor and deliberately twisted analogy and simile. Messing around with voice is one of things that has always interested me as a writer. Multiple points of view unleash that like the hounds of hell. Also allows for plenty of misdirection, which is even more fun. Of course, every bit of writing, every sentence, every paragraph should function to serve more than one purpose. If there’s just one (advancing action) it should probably be short and precise; otherwise if it’s establishing setting, or if it’s dialogue/monologue/characterisation, it should carry more than one level of intent and communication. That’s a rule I follow, any way.

His first fantasy novel, Gardens of the Moon (1999), constitutes the first of ten projected volumes of the Malazan Book of the Fallen. His style of writing tends towards complex plots with multiple point-of-view characters.

It is an epic fantasy, wide in scope and encompassing the stories of a very large cast of characters. Each book tells a different chapter in the ongoing saga of the Malazan Empire and its wars. For the first five books, each volume is self-contained, in that the primary conflict of each novel is resolved within that novel.

However, many underlying characters and events are interwoven throughout the works of the series, binding it together.

HRose: Erikson’s series should be under ‘epic’ in the dictionary. With timelines spanning 100000 years and more, and tons and tons of characters, many of which who are ancient themselves.

My personal favorite. I love the expansive and interesting world Erikson has built. That being one of your criteria I don’t think you can go wrong.

The other bonus of Erikson is that he’s fantasy of his own devising, and isn’t Tolkienesque. His take on gods and magic is pretty awesome, and unique to boot. He turns the idea of undead on its head, there is no ultimate good or ultimate evil, and there’s startlingly few stereotypes. Even when he delves in to a plot involving a young kid being caught up in things above him, he manages to take it in places that you just wouldn’t expect.

I do like Erikson too, but the far-flung epic feel drags in parts. That could just be me in that I only have time to read sporadically. The Malazan books are certainly not ones you skip merrily through. You have to pay attention and invest yourself in them. You are definitely paid off, though, because the detailed world he creates is nothing short of amazing.

This is the seventh novel in the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. It is everything you hoped for if you have been following this story from the beginning. The sheer scale and grandeur of this tale is breathtaking. Again you will question who are the “good guys” and who are the “bad guys”.

Martin and Erikson are absolutely the giants of the genre at this point.

One huge plus between Martin and Erikson though- Erikson is putting these out on an almost annual basis. There is a very real possibility that his entire ten book series will be released before Martin gets his sixth book out.

Erikson commonly gets compared to George RR Martin thought the two really aren’t that similar IMO other than the scale of the work and, in most opinions, relative quality. Both authors tell a fairly gritty tale but Erikson seems more concerned with history and magic while Martin seems focused mainly on characters.

Erikson’s strength is in his world detail. The world of the Malazan Empire has an incredibly detailed backstory and its the primary focus of the series. His books take the “in media res” concept very much to heart- there is no true beginning and most readers find themselves fairly confused with the first half of his first novel, Gardens of the Moon. He doesn’t slow for explanations or introductions- the world is already in the midst of a major continents-spanning war and most of the characters already have histories with one another that is only hinted at. You just have to accept that you’ll be confused and trust that you haven’t missed anything. By the second half of the book things start to click and you get a pretty good idea of the scope of what Erikson is trying to get across.

His best asset, IMO, is the sheer scale of the events. He also has some relatively interesting characters. One huge plus is that each book is relatively self-contained- there is a genuine finale and following books often take place in different times and places than previous ones with a few overlapping characters. Consequently each book is relatively satisfying without engaging in cheap cliffhangers.

Erikson other folks have described. Huge time scale, lots of gods and other major powers futzing with things. Enormous, dramatic conflicts. I’ve found every book so far to be rough getting into (he sometimes spends 5/6ths of a book building tension and weaving threads before the big shit goes down.) but increasingly compelling to the point of obsession the deeper into them I get. There’s nagging things that keep popping up and back down again before I can entirely identify them. But he’s telling much too good a story for me to really care.

Another big hell yeah for Malazan. There is just nothing else quite like it out there.

Tearing into ‘Memories of Ice’ by Erikson. Gotta love a book that has a 300 thousand person army of starving cannabalistic peasants laying seige to a city.

And another reason it deserves the “epic” title (which I didn’t see anyone else mentioning in this thread but they may have and I missed it) – the depth of character and location interaction is so broad it’s almost silly. You meet what look like minor throw-away characters in one book only to find they are the major player three books later.

Or you find a bizarre scene that is visited by many different groups of characters at different times, but the scenes don’t appear in order in the sequence of the books. You may find the gruesome mysterious aftermath of a battle in book 2, then read about the battle itself in book 5. I found myself constantly going “WAIT! Is that how that got there?” and shuffling through earlier books to remind myself of how things were connected.

And my last bit of fanboy praise – the characters are freaking GREAT. Ericson is not afraid to kill of major characters, and he creates new major characters in just about every book, and yet almost all of them are clearly drawn with distinct personalities and are quite memorable.

I think Erikson is the most complete fantasy writer out there today. Some authors are good at world building, some are good at characterization, but Erikson isn’t just good at both, he excels at both.

Erikson also does some really unique stuff with structure and narrative that I haven’t seen a lot in the genre. It’s not straightforward in any way. For example, the first book takes place on a certain continent with certain characters then Book 2 moves to a completely different continent with mainly new characters. Book 3 then acts as a sequel to Book 1, and Book 4 to Book 2.

Then there is an all new continent and characters in Book 5 and now Erikson is drawing all of those threads together in the latter half of the series.

The result is that the whole enterprise is basically a puzzle where the reader is making the connections between these seeming disparate storylines.

Especially since Erikson abhors any type of exposition describing the world and it’s history. It’s left to the reader to put together so readers of the first book often feel like they are missing something and starting a series in the middle. Another cool technique Erikson uses is that he hides some secrets and twists in plain sight which can makes re-reads quite enjoyable when you see how much he had laid out in advance.

Highly original. Very little of his world-building even reminds me of things I’ve read before.

I agree they’re an acquired taste, and not the easiest reads, but the chaotic insanity and excess of the whole concept is sort of exhilarating.

And the plotting is pretty extraordinary. By the time you get to book four and see how the throwaway random comment in book two was actually a reference to an event which was experienced in book three and had been foreshadowed in book one it can boggle the mind nicely.

Martin isn’t really high fantasy- it’s all very realistic with minimal magic. Erikson, on the other hand, really excels when it comes to epic, magic heavy battles.

Erikson’s world can probably be compared to the mythology of Ancient Greece but set in a medieval period- Gods and Ascendants (basically demi-gods) are main characters and frequently interact with mortals.

Erikson is a master of lost and forgotten epochs, a weaver of ancient epics on a scale that would approach absurdity if it wasn’t so much fun.

The sheer scale of the author’s vision is nothing less than astonishing. And the ease with which he seems to navigate through this grand epic of mortals and gods never ceases to astound me.

If you are not reading A Tale of the Malazan Book of the Fallen, you are missing out on what is possibly the most ambitious fantasy series to ever see the light.

War is a constant — from continent to continent, century upon century. Erikson’s universe is a violent one, Gothic in intensity, without clear demarcation between good and evil. It’s perhaps more like the real world, then, than most fantasy, which so clearly differentiates between light and dark. Not the kind of story I would read to my son before bed — death and pain abound, along with magic and wonder.

Gods are always messing with mortals in Erikson’s work, but the mortals also, by their patterns of belief, create their own gods, their own greater powers.

Give me, instead, the evocation of a rich, complex and yet ultimately unknowable other world, with a compelling suggestion of intricate history and mythology and lore. Give me mystery amid the grand narrative. There’s no need to spell it all out; no prefaces, please, elucidating the history of Middle Earth as if to students in a lecture hall. Instead, give me a world in which every sea hides a crumbled Atlantis, every ruin has a tale to tell, every mattock blade is a silent legacy of struggles unknown.

Give me, in other words, the fantasy work of Steven Erikson.

Genabeckis Continent & campaign as main arc: books 1 & 3
Seven Cities subcontinent & rebellion as main arc: books 2, 4, & 6
Lether Continent and Tiste Edur: books 5 & 7

The problem is that each book fills or offers a different interpretation of the backstory, along with advancing the series arc. You also have groups of characters take off from one continent and show up in another.

Fairly important characters are introduced in book 1, that then have a subplot in book 2, one of whom pops up in most of the other books.

Book 5 is almost entirely standalone, with a new continent and entirely new characters (except for one guy introduced in book 4) but it’s set as 5 years back in the timeline.

Sometimes people recommend starting with book 2, Deadhouse Gates, because it’s gripping and has the least background requirements, but then other people say that’s a bad idea.

Quon Tali, the continent that the Malazan Empire comes from, periodicly shows up throughout the books.

And I’m fucking ANGRY with Robert Jordan.

When you have duties toward people, YOU CAN’T DIE LIKE THAT. I’m going to blame him and god.

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Bloody Industry

It’s been described in a brutal way:

At approximately 4:30PM today, Sigil employees were told to meet outside. At which point they were terminated. On the spot.

Did they tell them to stand along the wall before they got executed?

Do we have the movie on YouTube?

Only official comment from Nino (FoH’s mascot), on the FoH’s boards:

I will make an announcement tomorrow regarding my status…

That isn’t a denial of the news.

My guess is that SOE cherry-picked some of them and fired the others. They’ll probably pretend Vanguard is going to be supported at least to milk it as much as possible before its demise. After all SOE still has Matrix Online active.

In other news SWG team is made by 20 devs.

CCP/Eve headcount

As recent as last week:

We’ve never been shy about letting the community know approximations of the number of active subscriptions (approaching 170k), trial accounts (about 22k), peak concurrent users (34,420), staff (201), etc. Information like that is normally mentioned on the forums or in news items, so it may be hard to spot. Most of the forum regulars see the numbers and will generally pass the information along to those that ask.

Just the renovation of all the 3D models in EVE (not including the graphics engine) is about 80 people.

EVE is still growing rapidly, we’re about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.

Reaching 160K at christmas, Jan and Feb were slow, now going on 170K. That’s paying subscribers.

They seem now bigger than Mythic. But I guess it depends on what you consider “staff”.

Of those 201, 150 are working on Eve. The rest? I don’t know, but CCP is working on different projects.

And about this specific gripe, they also have something interesting to say:

player: There used to be a time when the only thing CCP thought about, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, every individual at CCP ever thought about was EVE. This was the core group of developers that made EVE, that launched EVE, that imbued EVE with life. This core group of developers is now sundered both in their minds and at thier company.

Oveur: The new MMO is being made in Atlanta to prevent this from happening. A new team is being built there to prevent this from happening.

I drink the Kool-Aid, the fact that the WoD game is being built elsewhere wipes most of my concerns. Good work.

Sanya quits Mythic

Sanya joins Lum and Matt Firor out of the door, and I think it’s a good thing (for her, not for Mythic).

Lepidus: Can you talk about the circumstances of your departure?

Sanya Thomas: We mutually agreed to separate.

Mark Jacobs: I’m not going to say anything else on the subject, so please don’t ask, sorry.

The fun part is that Lum wrote a pitch letter for her :)

I consider this a HUGE news. Now don’t fucking tell me that it was just for personal reasons and things with Mythic were all fine and dandy.

I got the impression that Sanya was a bit of a driving force. Bad for Mythic, but Mythic doesn’t deserve anymore good things.

I think it won’t take long to discover where she lands. Maybe on Lum’s belly? (or maybe that’s too far away)

Well, I would, if I were leaving the area. Which I’m not.