Parsing comments

Two well-written and precise comments about DAoC and some other general issues.

The comments spawned from a discussion about Mythic and the acquisition of the Warhammer licence on F13.

Johny Cee:
The dominating factor in DAoC rvr/pvp was not items. It was class makeup and group min/maxing, with a bottleneck on having the right class abilities (speed, resist buffs, cc) and good players at the right classes (mezzer, healers primarily; these classes are essential, and not exciting to play. Damage dealers could almost be played by monkeys who can tap an /assist key). Liberally supplemented by out of game aids like radar and TS/Ventrilo.

This is Mythics big chance to redesign the core failures in their pvp system. There are any number of ideas that suck in implementation in DAoC now, that Mythic can’t get rid of since the cure is worse than the disease. Primarily:

1. Crowd controls overwhelming importance. Fights are often decided by who gets off the first mezz. CC went from a defensive measure to an offensive and game deciding measure.

2. Role of stealthers. Stealthers have bounced between solo gods and completely useless, depending on latest changes.

3. Buff(bot) problems. Bots are too prevalent to crack down on now, and too large a source of revenue

4. Interrupt code. Casters are hamstrung by the shitty way interrupts work, and have no option for self-defense besides crowd control (see problem 1.)

5. Damage. DAoC has largely been about frontloading/damage maximaztion. They tried to back off the 35% increase to damage in pvp/rvr in the first 6 months, and it never got off Test because of player outcry.

6. Uselessness of some mechanics. Bolts. Can’t “fix” them, because then everyone would be getting one/two shot. Abandoning bolts just completely fucks over classes that use them to a new and probably not much better mechanic

7. Combat system itself. As has been pointed out in other threads, DAoC’s combat system was cadged together when their attempt to license a developed system fell through.

8. The benefits of group min/maxing. At any one time, there are a section of DAoC classes that have no place in pvp. You NEED to min/max to have a shot. At different times, casters and tanks have been relegated to perpetually lfg. Hybrids generally have always been. I’d like to see a break from the mold of 4 damage dealers (of min/max class a), 1 mezzer, 2 healers, 1 speed class or buffer.


The problem you won’t see is grind. The grind in DAoC is worlds better than at release. And most of the new combat mechanics and classes that have been floated are more than proficient soloers/expers. I have a vamp at level 48 with a few days played, all casual. With a couple lengthy stops in the battlegrounds for pvp.

Yes, the grind was shit-tacular for the first year and a half…. I’m just saying Mythic has figured out that mistake already.

The prevailing trend is away from grind. And Mythic always goes with the prevailing trend.

Twitch vs. numbers vs. other systems — I don’t understand the great desire to have twitch mechanics. It isn’t a test of skill, it’s a test of reflexes and learned typing patterns. Hell, why would a company want to develop an MMO going into twitch mechanics? You have lots of competition in other FPSs with no monthly fees, with a high turnover of dominant games.

Honestly, alot of people who play mmos now would have nothing to do with a twitch system. I know I wouldn’t touch it, after working all day writing or banging on a keypad at mach 9. The fingers just wouldn’t cooperate.

I’d love to see a mechanic that takes advantage of real stategy or tactics, and the importance of decision making. That rewards innovatative play and adaption.

Right now, closet thing you get is Magic Online. You get elements of strategy (deck choice and sideboard choice), implentation and decision making (choice of how to use resources, when to use spells/abilities), and luck. Even in an unfavorable matchup, clever use of your cards can give you a win. Or good metagaming can give you the right choice of cards to use against prevalent decks.

Twitch vs. non-twitch is a red-herring. Skill is what matters. Whether the skill is twitch skill or strategy or whatever is not really relevant. Most MMORPG playing is simply learning a pattern and repeating it 10,000 times.

I think people get hung up on twitch because nearly all twitch games do require some skill at some level, so they equate the two. My problem with MMORPGs isn’t that they lack twitch, it’s that they lack any appreciable skill or real decision making.

Leave a Reply