Version 2.0 of my Battle System.
Less messy and more organized.

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I’ll try to not be too boring like I usually am (and despite the horrible english). The idea comes from a long experience in DAoC, from its mistakes and what could be taken and developed from there to build something different but more *fun and compelling*. I’ll take an idea that went terribly wrong in DAoC: the Master Levels. Everything, from their achievement till their role in the game are seen by the community more or less as a disaster. What I think is that the idea is still awesome but with an awful implementation. Now I thought about “salvaging” what’s good and use it to “fire” my imagination and suggest a complete new system for WoW. With these goals:

+ Provide a good reward system/treadmill for PvP
+ Give the players a reason and a concrete purpose to fight for, avoiding to provide excuses to “host” completely faked and maningless battles
+ Develop a number of skills that will be used exclusively on -large scale- battles, leaving the PvE aspect alone
+ Add depth to the system so that it will involve a complex strategical gameplay and not a sudden zerg instant pointless battle
+ Develop this system so that it will be deeper than just access a set of determined skills. The idea is to build a battle system where everyone has a concrete different *role* based on the achieved rank
+ Epic feel, endless possibilities to expand the system (patches and/or specific expansions) and the sense of wonder that the current game misses

In DAoC the reward system is based on Realm Points. By killing enemies you earn these points and by collecting more of them you earn ranks and cumulative points that you can spend to gain directly new skills. This system works nicely because it gives you a concrete reason to go fight in a PvP environment. The “treadmill” feeds the fun as the levelling does in the standard PvE: killing monsters must be fun but you also need to provide reasons to excuse the gameplay and hook the players. Levelling and gaining skills are hooks. In PvP you need both the hooks and a reason to give depth to the PvP, like a conquest system where the battles have a purpose aside the single encounters.

Considering WoW, it’s obvious that copying DAoC’s system isn’t the best way to go. WoW will have “Hero” classes and they sound already a pain to design without destroying the game. Another new system that gives more skills to the players and that need to be extensively balanced isn’t a good idea. My opinion is that there should be a completely new “battle system” that will offer its own gameplay and rewards (and also define differences between battleground and a possible, different endgame). How to achieve all this?

1. Ranks, squads and generals

The PvP should be defined by “ranks”. These ranks will not only give to each player the access to new sets of specific skills (creating a specific treadmill, undependent from PvE), but they will also define the role of each player during a battle. Opening possibilities and setting specific goals depending on your role. These ranks depend on points you can gain during the PvP. And these points can be gained in two ways. The first is by killing opponents, the second is by accomplishing set purposes (like specific missions). This shapes already the structure of both the reward and the gameplay system. The ranks not only define the new treadmill with its own rewards (the “hooks”) but they define also the gameplay since both your goals and possibilities in a battle depend on your rank. Plus there should be a visualization system for them. There should be graphical elements that will allow other players to “read” the rank of a player just by looking at them. This should be done by just setting a zone on the armor (like a shoulder or the chest) where the ranks are graphically displayed.

At this point the players could organize in “squads” and each squad will be able to choose a player (between the highest ranks) to become a “general”. When a general is set, a big flag with the symbol of the guild will appear on his back and will vanish only when he’ll disband the squad. This flag is both an advantage and a disadvantage. Advantage because a general has access to skills that will produce bonuses for everyone fighting around him (bonuses to magic, resistence, defence, attack..). A disadvantage because a leader with a flag on his back is easily recognizable, enemies could just focus on him to kill him and wipe the bonuses he’s infusing in the allies.

To conclude this section a few words about how PvP points should be gained. As I said, aside specific missions and goals related to a whole squad (like killing a leader, forcing a retreat and so on), points can be gained just by killing opponents. How the amount of these points should be defined? This is a complex part that I define more precisely here. The idea is to reward group survival. If a group survives an encounter (51% alive) it will gain a bonus multiplier (with a diminished return softcapped at 2.5). The more a group survives the more the bonus builds up (and the same group will be worth more if killed). If the group flees from a PvP battlefield OR is defeated (only if 50% or more of it dies) the bonus is lost and resets to zero.

2. Battle System: skills and spells

Each rank you achieve gives you access to new skills and spells. This is a brand new system that will coexist with zero impact on the PvE. How? These skills and spells don’t affect a single character nor a single group. They are ALL area-based. They can affect: – The environment – Allies – Enemies. The three targets are general. This still doesn’t prevent the use of these skills in the normal PvE or PvP. The point is that the effectivity of each of these spells is extremely limited. Each of these skills and spells is designed so that it will have a radius and a *stackable* effect. If only one player cast one of these spells the effect will be nearly zero. But then more players could “add” to the spell and strengthen it, building up its effect and affecting more and more players. So these spells and skills are planned to have an “impact” and a purpose only during large battles or sieges. With a nearly zero role in small and fast encounters. This to leave unaffected all the PvE and group-based PvP. The system I’m defining is about creating a battle system with its own tactics and dynamics. Working toward building a depth where the game usually becomes just a pointless zerg clash.

To prevent balance problems the effectivity of each spell works again with a diminished return value and a softcap. So that the cap will prevent these spells to become too overpowering and out of control while the stack will give a sense to each player contributing to strengthen the spell effect.

That’s the general structure. To this I added a “spellcrafting” system working like alchemy. Each spell cannot be casted at players’ will. There’s a complex system below. The first “stage” is about creating a “recipe”. Recipes are general spells based on different “magic schools”. They define just the general “type” of the spell. Recipes can be casted only with a communal effort of the players (rituals) and they need to not be interrupted for a certain amount of time. When a recipe is ready the players will then be able to add “ingredients”. And these ingredients will just modify the final effect, for example by expaning the range, invigorate an effect, add an effect and so on. Recipes will only be able to affect the three targets, only one for each recipe (environment, allies, enemies), but they can still be casted for different purposes (you could define recipes that follow the leader of an army, recipes that will be casted on the ground to affect the zone and prepare ambushes or defend hotspots, recipes that can be used in sieges, recipes as divination to “see” what the opposite force is doing… and so on). While the ingredients define the concrete effect and behaviour (add effects, increase the power, increase the radius, increase the duration, add movement, boost effectivity in rushes etc…).

3. Resource system and geomancy

If you look at my goals you can still see that the system misses something. It misses a real purpose and something concrete to fight for. To achieve this I imagined a resource system linked to geomancy effects. I haven’t defined every single detail here because a lot depends on how many resources you can use to add and expand this part. My whole design is built so that it’s easily expandable and this section is particularly near to this concept. The general idea is about giving the players the possibility to fight and conquer “nodes”. These nodes not only are structures with defenses, creating the base of a siege system, but they also work as a resource system. Each node affects a geomancy power. If you control a node it means that various characteristics of that zone will change (and they can be monitored and regulated). These nodes affect directly the “recipes” of the previous section. So, each geographical zone will have a different effect (and gameplay) by boosting or hindering the various “recipe” spells. This both based on the location of the battle (so, naturally) AND on who controls the various nodes.

The system is really more simple than how it sounds. Each zone will have by default a “natural” specific effect on the “recipe spells”. But the players will be able to conquer and control nodes so that they will be able to “tweak” these general bonuses and maluses at their advantage (boosting a magic school for example). The effect is not out of balance because pushing a magic school will make another one weak, the balance is already *inside* the system. Who doesn’t control the nodes can still use the strategy, the difference is that they won’t be able to control those bonuses and maluses directly.

The idea is simply about adding a concrete purpose and reason to fight for. The system can be expanded at will, by creating a real siege system and adding more purposes to the nodes (you could extract resources to build defenses and different structures. Building villages and so on.).

Housing anyone? :)

4. War machines

Here I’m leaning even more toward the endless possibilities to expand the system. This idea is about creating more differences between “casters” and “tanks” during a battle: The reward system, then, isn’t limited to new spells. It should be planned with various possibilities, where casters will have a *prevalent*, but not exclusive, access to the “ritual/recipe/ingredient system” and tanks to a different one. What is this new system for tanks (but not exclusively)? War machines.

The idea is to plan a real battle system where tank classes will be able to fly or drive more or less large steampunk machines, from zeppelins and dirigibles to large motorized rams. Bringing back Warcraft’s soul to this game. Casters will use the “ritual system” described to produce collective spells, while the melee classes will have access to major engines to drive the sieges. Obviously to move one of these machines the players will need to organize, they will move as a communal effort (same as the ritual system), making sure that each players still has something to do (since sitting there just for “presence” isn’t good gameplay).

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This is all. The result is that we can forget about a dumbed down zerg-combat and really create an epic scale war with strategical and fun elements. And, once started, the possibilities are endless.

I hope it’s not too late for suggesting some ambition :)

I posted this raving bit about a PvP system that would fit in WoW:

I’ll try to not be too boring like I usually am (and despite the horrible english). The idea comes from a long experience in DAoC, from its mistakes and what could be taken and developed from there to build something different but more fun and compelling. I’ll take an idea that went terribly wrong in DAoC: the Master Levels. Everything, from their achievement till their role in the game are seen by the community more or less as a disaster. What I think is that the idea is awesome but it had an awful implementation. Now I thought about “salvaging” what’s good and use it to “fire” my imagination and suggest a new system for WoW so that I could also be able to “fix” a few problems that are already in the game. Because WoW needs:
– A reward system
– A better dynamic system that adds some depth to epic encounters between armies

In DAoC the reward system is based on Realm Points. By killing enemies you earn these points and by collecting more of them you earn ranks and cumulative points that you can spend to gain directly new skills. This system works nicely because it gives you a concrete reason to go fight in a PvP environment. The “treadmill” feeds the fun as the levelling does in the standard PvE: killing monsters must be fun but you also need to provide reasons to excuse the gameplay and hook the players. Levelling and gaining skills are hooks. In PvP you need both the hooks and a reason to give depth to the PvP, like a conquering system where the battles have a purpose aside the single encounters.

Considering WoW, it’s obvious that copying DAoC’s system isn’t the best way to go. WoW will have Hero classes and they sound already a pain to design without destroying the game. Another new system that gives more skills to the players and that need to be extensively balanced isn’t a good idea. My opinion is that there should be a completely new “battle system” that will offer its own gameplay and rewards (and also define differences between battleground and a possible, different endgame). The idea comes from DAoC’s Master Levels because the purpose is to earn a set of skills based on ranks in a similar way to the Realm Albilities. But these skills won’t be designed to offer new sets of possibilities but, instead, to have a role ONLY in battles between armies. The good idea about the Master Levels is that they don’t affect only a player or a single party, but they spread out, like healing fields effective at a range. In WoW it will be a pain to invent and develop another new set of skills but this could be done if these skills will be really designed only around big battles. So that they will affect only this type of gameplay, while they’ll be completely useless in a single-party dynamics.

I’ll make a concrete example so that you can understand better the idea. One of the common ML Ability in DAoC is the healing field. You drop it and it will heal tot number of hit points every so seconds based on a range. Everyone inside the range is affected (aside the enemies). The implementation is horrible in DAoC because you cannot drop more than one field, because they don’t stack. So the situation is that: it is useful if you are in a single party, while it’s less useful in a zerg because someone else will probably have it anyway. My idea is to revert this horrible design so that it fits the real model. The healing field should be developped so that if a single player casts it, it will have a really worthless effect. To the point that noone should bother to cast it if playing alone in a normal group. But it WILL stack. Each player with that skill should be able to strengthen the effect by casting its own on top of the other. This means that these skills/spells will have a role only in the dynamics of a large PvP battles between armies, while they’ll be forgettable in 1 Vs 1 encounters. To fix the obvious balance issues the statistics of these spells must be variable. They should stack but in a progressive, diminished return. Each spell casted will strengthen the previous but not excactly doubling the effect. The purpose is to make every single spell be effective (opposed to DAoC where once one is casted all the others are ignored) but beneath a set cap that will mantain the whole dynamic under control, avoiding exploits.

This can be chained to different ideas to produce a really deep and interesting system. My suggestion would be to develop these new spells like an “alchemy system”. Listen. Instead of creating a spell with a set, precise effect, like it always happens in these games, you develop each one like an “ingredient” or “recipe”. You’ll be able to set various recipes (which should be linked to magic schools and player classes). When the “main recipe” spell is casted (perhaps as a commonal effort of different players), other players will be able to set and add their own spells to the main one, providing different effects or combining those to create new ones. The result is a mess but also loads of fun. It’s a battle dynamic absolutely original with a nearly infinite potential. While right now zerg battles feel absolutely dumb and boring, a system like this could provide not only the “reward” that the PvP needs (since these spells are aquired by practicing PvP) but it will also add depth to a battle system. It will actually create a battle system, as opposed to what the market offers. Easy to balance because it’s big-scale only and, above all, set with precise caps (as explained in the previous paragraph).

It’s not all :)
If you open up the system there’s a lot more to make WoW be original and innovative. If you implement at this point a conquest system where players will be able to conquer and control structures, you can develop, on top of that, a resource system similar to “geomancy”. Controlling nodes on the landmass will have an effect on the magic schools, boosting or hindering them. This means that the location of a battle will affect directly these “Realm Abilities”. Controlling a node will give resources and, at the same time, produce a weakness (or the system becomes too overpowering). And I could go on more and more to suggest the many possibilities a similar system has. After all the game will be developed even after its release, the idea is to set the framework where the PvP isn’t an afterthought but a compelling system that could push the genre, then you have endless possibilities till you have resources to expend on this part. The early goal shouldn’t be hard to achieve since it doesn’t seem to be “too much” demanding from a development point of view: something small and solid but with the design already projected toward the future.

To conclude this reasoning, a last (awesome, I think) note about different classes. The system I described revolves around spells but I don’t think that every class should follow this idea. Aside the recipe/ingredients system I think you can develop another one that I bet would be LOVED by the community everywhere. Spellcasting classes should use “mainly” the system described, they have their role in a battle due to that system. What do the poor tanks? They do something cool: the rank system won’t give them access to spells, it will give them access to vehicles. The idea is to plan a real battle system where tank classes will be able to fly or drive more or less large steampunk machines, from zeppelins and dirigibles to large motorized rams. Bring Warcraft’s soul to this game. Casters will use the “ritual system” described to produce collective spells, while the melee classes will have access to major engines to drive the sieges. The reward system needed in the game is exactly the access to these new gameplay systems, working only on these battles and leaving the normal PvE uneffected to the point that you can simply not care about the PvP. Even if I’m sure *you will* if such a system will be developed :)

The result is that we can forget about a dumbed down zerg-combat and really create an epic scale war with strategical and fun elements. And, once started, the possibilities are endless.

I hope it’s not too late for suggesting some ambition :)

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General summary for who cannot be bothered to read all the above:

+ Reward system based on ranks
+ You can gain ranks by killing opponents and, in particular, by accomplishing set purposes (like specific missions)
+ Gaining ranks give each player access to a set of battle-related “skills”, coordinated to give each player a different role in a battle, based on the current rank (defining squads with different purposes)
+ The most common version of these skills is about spells that have *no* impact on a single party encounter but strong impact on large scale battles (by actually creating a complex “Battle System” with its own dynamics, as opposed to a pointless zerg rush)
+ Each spell is designed so that it will stack with a diminished return of effectivity below a set cap
+ The cap will prevent these spells to become too overpowering while the stack will give a sense to each player contributing to strengthen the spell effect
+ From a design point of view these new spells will work as an alchemy system. There are “recipes” (based on magic schools) that will be casted as a communal effort of more players, then others players will be able to add “ingredients” to the main spell, creating a bigger ritual with the time which will affect the whole area of the battle (you could define recipes that follow the leader of an army, recipes that will be casted on the ground to affect the zone and prepare ambushes or defend hotspots, recipes that can be used in sieges, recipes as divination to “see” what the opposite force is doing… and so on – where the ingredients add effects, increase the power, increase the radius, increase the duration, add movement, boost effectivity in rushes etc…)
+ This new spell system then should be linked to a resource system based on the possibility to conquer and control “nodes”, similar to geomancy zones
+ So, each geographical zone will have a different effect (and gameplay) by boosting or hindering the various “recipe” spells. This both based on the location of the battle (so, naturally) AND on who controls the various nodes
+ Nodes will provide different resources. The system could be complex since it could be used to expand a settlement, build bigger protections etc…
+ The reward system, then, isn’t limited to new spells. It should be planned with various possibilities, where casters will have a *prevalent*, but not exclusive, access to the ritual system and tanks to a different one (still not exclusively)
+ The prevalent reward system for tanks should be about the ability to use various war machines
+ The war machines go from zeppelins and dirigibles to large mechanical rams. The idea is that each of these war machines will need more than one player to be moved around
+ At this point everyone should still have something fun to do, like driving or commanding turrets or whatever. For sure not just standing there

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The goals of the system I imagined are:

+ Provide a good reward system/treadmill for PvP
+ Develop a number of skills that will be used exclusively on large scale battles, leaving the PvE aspect alone
+ Add depth to the system so that it will involve a complex strategical gameplay and not a sudden zerg instant pointless battle
+ Give the players a reason and a concrete purpose to fight for (nodes and resources based on a conquer system involving land control on specific zones), avoiding to provide excuses to “host” completely faked and maningless battles
+ Develop this system so that it will be deeper than just access a set of determined skills. The idea is to build a battle system where everyone has a concrete different *role* based on the achieved rank
+ Epic feel, endless possibilities to expand the system and the sense of wonder that the current game misses

Then I could go on forever. For example you need to give a very important role to the guilds inside this system and the rank system should regulate not only the access to new spells but really different roles in the actual war. The idea is to shift the game toward an RTS where each player will still have fun by playing a single soldier/role.

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I don’t really pretend someone to read all this and even comment but I think it’s not a bad work and perhaps it deserves another attempt at visibility (ahh, stupid hopes..). It provides what a PvP system needs, from the general gameplay system, to the fun, the endgame, the rewards, huge selling points like vehicles, etc…

Even if it needs a lot of work it’s still a skeleton that could become rock solid easily, with a huge potential for being expanded as you like, with whole expansions or patches. Plus it’s not a problem because it coexists with the PvE flawlessly and without consequences.

I really would like to receive some kind of feedback:
– You think it’s too ambitious?
– You think it’s out of the aim?
– You think it’s written so bad that isn’t even readable?
– You think that it sounds horrid and stupid to say the best?
– You think it’s the most foolish thing you have ever heard?
– You think it’s a “convoluted ESL brain twisters”? (this is J.)
– Your eyes simply glaze over pages of dense posting on game theory? (This is Lum the Mad)
– You think it’s simply not possible?
– You think it’s simply broken and confused?
– You think that you don’t care simply because it’s a complete waste of time since Blizzard has its own plan and won’t change it even if a fool posts something (horribly written and confused) on a forum aimed to invent a completely new game just a few months before the launch?

(well, my opinion is the last one)

I like a lot “playing designer” but it’s also something that frustrates me a whole lot because I know that I’m only playing with impossible, distant dreams. If someone at Blizzard is reading: I envy you.

P.S.
Yes, I’ll resist the temptation of using my 20 characters to simulate infinite praises to what I wrote here. I don’t really like talking with myself. I’m another kind of fool, but this is another story that will be told in another occasion.

-HRose / Abalieno
http://www.cesspit.net/
In testing: http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/