Saving part of a thread discussing the mandatory use of Voice Chat in WoW’s endgame raids. It’s pretty much self-explanatory.
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First off, I am sick and tired of just about every single half-way serious raiding guild REQUIRING Teamspeak/Vent. Not to mention, all of the other add-ons. This game is NOT that complicated. Its actually pretty easy. Not to mention, you can just look up just about any boss encounter for the strategies.
I don’t know about you, but when I get off of work, I really, really do not want to listen to 39 other voices barking orders or what-not. Its distracting, and annoying as heck. And theres always that one EMO, pimply-faced kid that is going through the onset of puberty with that cracking voice. Ugh. I simply like to enjoy this game to escape from real-life and enjoy my hobby. Having to listen to 39 other people for 4-6 hours does not fit in with either.
TS/vent didn’t come with the game. All of these add-ons did not either. I’m pretty sure that everything up to and including Nef can be beaten pretty much naked. Besides, if Ts/vent is such a necessity, let the GM/officers have it, with comms going between just the raid leader and the leader of each group.
I’ve gotten through the entirety of ZG without using anything but what came in the game(okay, I use shardtracker, sue me). Haven’t really done MC but once or twice. I was also in a successful PvP guild that won far more than it lost. No TS/vent amongst the members there. Worked just fine.
WoW is a game notorious for not really “bonding” its players together. I have made no friends in here. I don’t want to have to hear stranger’s voices from within my own home. I have no problem taking orders, as long as they are typed.
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Kay.
And honestly, I don’t care one way or another. Vent is fun, at time, and it does make things easier, but it’s by no means a “requirement” for us. Two of our people are on Macs; they can’t use it no matter what they do. One of our members just flat doesn’t want to join. *shrug* Doesn’t bug me.
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We don’t demand people use these mods but we suggest that people do. They do make things easier especially during the learning processes. That said, our guild is really quite friendly and so our TS conversations are often pretty light.
Also, in a raid, only the raid leader should be talking anyways.
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Hyacinth:
We’ve managed to play online games of all sorts requiring teamwork for quite some time and I am mostly deaf (using something like Vent or TS just wouldn’t work).
For years we managed before the technology was even “there” enough to use such a thing. I can understand that it would make things easier in some cases but I can also imagine what it must sound like when everyone gets excited.
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These are my feelings exactly. Having a teenage party line channeled into my living room for hours at a time sounds like torture to me. I tolerate some voice comms for shooter games, but those don’t go on for hours like WoW can, and I can freely bail whenever I want.
WoW IS easy mode. I played EQ for years, and went on all kinds of end game 40+ man raids. We never needed to use voice chat. Leaders took a few minutes to type a strategy for the encounter, and people followed it. There is nothing in the WoW encounters that can not be addressed before hand, and a strategy composed for in advance. Relying on voice is a crutch for people to lazy to type a few complete sentences before the fight begins.
I have no problem if other people want to use voice chat. It’s just not something I want for myself. Yes, that means I’m barred from basically all end game raiding guilds. Fine with me. I don’t plan on filing a discrimination lawsuit.
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PEOPLE STOP WHINING.
Fine! dont use vent/TS, but if we require our members to Have it, and you dont, then dont join us! and stop complaining.
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This is very simple.
If TS/Vent aren’t at all necessary, then you shouldn’t have any problems finding guilds that don’t use/require them.
Right?
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Wrong.
It’s by no means necessary to take a 10-man raid into Scholomance. It was built for a 5-man team, and it can be done by a 5-man team, especially post-nerf.
So you shouldn’t have any problems finding a 5-man team, right?
Wrong. You can shave a little difficulty off of it by taking in 10, so most people refuse to go in with less.
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Hyacinth:
I don’t think so, no. Necessary to run raids? Nope. Might be convenient, might be a preference but not necessary.
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the thing is, MC is hard enough at it is. the main reason guilds require things like this is why make it harder than it has to be? it may not be necessary but it sure makes things a lot easier.
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Hyacinth:
Hard for me to argue this because I can’t use Vent/TS *but* we discussed the others in our guild using it and the concensus was that they didn’t see a need. Since we don’t do PUG stuff much and since we know our classes/jobs there’s not too much need to talk. We have a shorthand system down (Peel/mage or sap/mob etc.) which works just fine and has through many games.
It’s a convenience I think and no objection to that but necessary? Nah.
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You can do it just fine without TS/vent but it just adds to the fun factor.
The pure hilarity of some of the things that happen on TS is worth it. Also makes it 10x easier for when things go bad or need someone to help you out.
And you can also laugh at your MT when he does something stupid and dies :)
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Bingo. If it were not necessary, if it did not help so very much, guilds that want to raid (with few exceptions) would not require it.
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Hyacinth:
Disagree. Having a preference can and does lead to a guild requirement. Many guilds prefer Vent/TS, they like being able to talk to one and other. That’s fine, more power to ’em but it’s not necessary to play the game well.
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There is no usable Mac client available. Either Vent or Teamspeak. Both require the Speex (sp?) codec which most guild-hosted servers do not support.
The Ventrillo software is late-alpha stage. It crashes within a few seconds of startup.
I certainly have no particular desire to listen to 39 other people playing out their angst, although there are a couple of people in the PUG that runs MC that I would like to hear. I am sure that while we are trying to take down Ragnaros it might be helpful. But if you can’t respond to the CT_RaidAssist notices, you will NEVER respond to the audibles coming out of the headphones.
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Abalieno:
Maybe it doesn’t bug you but I assure you that it’s been impossible for me to find a guild to join for about four months.
After being kicked out of the previous one because I couldn’t comply with the requirements.
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Abalieno:
Disagree. Having a preference can and does lead to a guild requirement. Many guilds prefer Vent/TS, they like being able to talk to one and other. That’s fine, more power to ’em but it’s not necessary to play the game well.
Yes, but that “preference” is becoming a ****ing accessibility barrier for other players that cannot comply.
And if you cannot comply you are out. Goodbye.
No matter of your “choice”. I wish I had a damn choice.
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Hyacinth:
You do. I’m deaf. I can’t use it either and I’ve yet to run into any problems with people trying to insist that I do. Yes, some would like for me to but they don’t freak when I tell ’em I can’t.
We did raiding and all kinds of things that required teamwork in other games and managed just fine without TS/Vent and we’re doing just fine here.
I wouldn’t care to be part of a guild that did insist on something like that. Not because I can’t hear but because I think it would be *more* distracting to have to keep track of what’s on my screen, what’s going on in my ears and I know that people can be excitable and go off on a verbal tangent in the middle of a tough fight.
So, I’m sorry that there are guilds that are excluding you but it still is NOT a necessity. They are making it a requirement for their guilds much like many guilds don’t want any more
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Your grievance is with your guild, not with the larger WoW community or with the game’s developers.
It has almost no bearing on voice-comm software either. This is about some guild’s rules and your objection or compliance to them. If a guild requires you to commit 4 hours a night at 8PM PST, and you can’t comply, it’s their obligation to enforce guild rules or they would compromise their ability to organise and lead their raids.
Leading a raiding guild really _is_ work, and when officers take action to control or limit non-compliant members, it isn’t always personal or acrimonious—they’re just doing their job.
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Abalieno:
You do. I’m deaf. I can’t use it either and I’ve yet to run into any problems with people trying to insist that I do. Yes, some would like for me to but they don’t freak when I tell ’em I can’t.
Well, maybe this works for you and the fact that you are deaf triggers a “politically correct” compassion that make them not answer harshly.
But if I ask to join a guild and say I cannot use the voice chat, the answer is one: Goodbye.
Yeah, I know it’s not a necessity but as someone else has written:
Whether or not Voicechat is an ease, or it’s required, or people could use hierarchical menus to get soundbytes (ala PS) is irrelevant in that its forever arguable.
What actually matters is the rules players set. You can mock and sneer all you want, but if 39 people use Voicechat for Raiding or PvP or just %@$%ing around at the Auction House, the 40th person is going to use Voicechat too.
Players make the rules. Everyone else decides to follow them or gets excluded.
And the players care less than zero if this damages the community or excludes some players.
There’s the phat loot and the shortest route to it.
This is what these games are currently “teaching” us.
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Hyacinth:
But if I ask to join a guild and say I cannot use the voice chat, the answer is one: Goodbye.
Then they’re intolerant and I would wonder why you’d want to hang out with them to begin with?
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Abalieno:
Because, as I said, I wish I had a choice.
I don’t know if my server is particularly bad but I don’t think so and I suspect that it’s exactly the same on every other.
These games are essentially functional and the players themselves set standards that you just ought to respect if you want to be part of the group.
The devs are partly responsible because the higly specialized content brought directly to create highly specialized guilds that completely isolate themselves from the rest of the community. Even if you can use the voice chat you could have an hard time finding a rading guild if you aren’t a priest or a druid.
The content is being shaped around 20-40 men instances and the guilds, as a consequence, are being shaped around that content.
Leading a guild is already a onerous task. Dealing with people (exceptions) who cannot comply with the standards is usually an added burden that noone really wants to deal with.
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WoW is an easy game. In MC, what, you have one, maybe 2 jobs to do? Not hard at all, and definately DOES NOT require 39 others talking amongst themselves to figure it out.
This game has been hijacked by lazy people. I bet the same guild leaders/officers are the ones who have a compass in their car because they don’t know how to use directions. Point out this infallacy, and they reply “oh, but why make it hard on yourself?” NOT HAVING TS/VENT IS NOT MAKING IT HARD ON YOURSELF. Pressing this requirement on another guild member means you are insecure, intolerant, untrusting. You don’t need it. If you want it so bad, use it just amongst the raid leader and party leaders.
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Abalieno:
This game has been hijacked by lazy people.
Give a look to this.
“Being lazy” seems the whole point of playing games. Even for the academics.
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You might be missing a few points.
Q: What is the fastest way for people to communicate ideas quickly to each other?
A: Verbally
You can argue that you can type really fast but you cannot argue that people might not read it. Chat channels can get mobarded with information.
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Abalieno:
Yes, noone is arguing that voice chat isn’t an useful “ease”.
The problem is when it becomes mandatory, excluding those who CANNOT use it.
Those who don’t have a choice.