DAoC’s expansion – The feature list

Another part on the same topic because I wasn’t able to fit all I wanted to say in the other post. In this case more opinions directly on the features of the expansion.

To begin with: noone is writing about the expansion on a forum beside the specialized ones about the game. This says a lot about the appeal of this expansion towards new or returning players.

Then, from what I read, everyone has taken “The Labyrinth” as an RvR dungeon. I don’t know from where that idea is coming because after I read the expansion details that thought didn’t even pass by my head. I don’t know if my brain just refuses to accept bad game design, but if that dungeon is an RvR dungeon then it’s really a bad idea.

This is one of those things that are obvious to just *everyone*. The game definitely doesn’t need more space where to fit the RvR. It needs LESS. And everyone KNEW that already when “New Frontiers” was in the design stages, with everyone wondering why the hell Mythic didn’t reduce the number of zones. It was just stupid.

When I read that announce I thought it was just one massive dungeon, maybe even instanced, but just for PvE. The press release doesn’t specify it’s “RvR” and, if true, it would be a so bad idea that I didn’t even contemplate it.

The games HAS ALREADY a massive RvR dungeon. It’s called Darkness Falls and it is already largely ignored by the players. If you wanted to give some weight to this aspect of the game then it would have made sense to revitalise it (and not just graphically). I really dislike when the game design isn’t well polished and new ideas goes right to overlap and crowd another part of the game that shares the exact same purpose.

As I wrote in the last discussions about PvP, the PvP needs a “convergence”. More locales only damage the game, in particular when so much space is already there wasted and without a purpose.

In those ideas that I had suggested for the expansion I also proposed to add a new RvR zone, but with a significant difference that can be used as a template to judge similar attempts about adding more space. In that idea the new zone was designed to be “alternate” to the RvR frontiers. It was planned to be sealed for most of the time, so with the players forced outside of it. While, when open, it would become the focus, with all the players converging there. It was the frontier OR the new zone, not both together at the same time.

So it wasn’t just another zone always available, but a new space that “triggered” under certain conditions. So that its role didn’t overlap nor replaced the standard zones.

If the rumor is confirmed I would really like to know what’s the purpose of that new RvR dungeon. In particular when they underline so much that it is going to be the biggest dungeon ever. I imagine the slogan: “You will never meet the same player two times”. A great feature for a PvP game.

By definition a “labyrinth” is PvE. Not really the best layout to host some PvP action. Maybe I’m wrong but when Mythic says “largest single dungeon in any MMO” I suddenly imagine the exact same corridor cut and pasted ad infinitum. Already with Darkness Rising they went with those huge locales but thin on content. Advertising “size” today is like a warning, as people know that worthwhile content isn’t proportional with size. You don’t want to be “Dark & Light”.

While I was thinking about what could be possible with a labyrinth and some PvP I started to think about moving walls, traps, the possibility to rotate entire sections of the labyrinth to trap the players inside or made them lose orientation and so on. I even thought of walls that become progressively more solid over time, like graphically fading in and out. Then I also thought about group of players trapped within certain sections and then respawn directly in the dungeon if killed. There could be some interesting possibilities to explore, adding some dynamic elements and give some player control over them. But I seriously doubt that it’s what Mythic is trying to do. And no matter how good these ideas could be, the problem of adding too much space when the game is already too spread thin would still cripple whatever you may add.

In all the cases, all the ideas I imagined were about the players and not about respawning mobs. Noone likes to PvP in a dungeon crowded with monsters. The game has already PvE/PvP dungeons. One is Darkness Falls, the other is the underground tunnel in the frontiers. Both largely ignored. Adding one more? Why?

The dungeon will be located under Agramon and my suspect is that it will inherit is uselessness. So, instead of worrying about the damaging effect it could have on the RvR population/concentration, the risk is that it will instead go completely ignored already after a few weeks it will be patched in.

AT LEAST the rumor about instanced RvR revealed to be false. And if it was a feature-cut, then god bless it.

This dungeon will be also populated by mechanical creatures. Here only a note to make because I’m kind of used to the superficiality/carelessness with which Mythic implements things (they are usually quick and respect the deadlines, but the results are poor): mechanical things, even before how they look, need special animations. I put my hands forward here because I’ve seen one screenshot of a pet you can get, and it’s just an animal model with a mechanical skin. As a style I would pick something more odd and awkward, with mechanical things that move and attack oddly, instead of just taking the standard monster types and reskinning them to look metallic.

About the new race and class I don’t have much to say because I wrote about them in the other post. The fact that the minotaur can use a two-handed weapon with one hand doesn’t really shock me because I know that the designers will have to compensate it somehow. It’s a bad idea to advertize the power of a new class in a PvP game because it only leads to players screaming about unbalances already before the game is out.

DAoC usually had quite original and diversified classes to offer. That’s a merit. For now there isn’t much about the “Brawler” class that makes it look like something really interesting.

About the lootable relic/artifacts idea I won’t comment either, for now. It’s one that I know really well because I’ve juggled with it for a few years. So I know quite well the risks and purposes of it. I’ll wait to see the details before adding my comments (if I’ll be around by then). I’ll just say that the idea fits an expansion well. There’s always the problem that you cannot touch the RvR with “optional” content. But in this case these items are unique (at least in my idea), so while they will influence ALL players, those who use/carry them are still unique cases. You just need one player with the expansion who can loot/carry the item, then everyone else can play around. It doesn’t unbalance the game or is felt as “unfair” from that perspective as it cannot be made mandatory for all players as it happens instead with the ToA items and abilities, which are “farmable”.

And finally we have the new item slots and the Champion levels. About the Champion levels I can only grimace a bit. They are neither bad nor good, I will have to see how they continue the paths. I also cannot comment much because I never went about the first level, as I didn’t finish the last PvE encounter and the kills in RvR didn’t give enough points to see the bar moving.

The items slots have the problematic implication and risk to become another ToA. And people would hate this already on the principle. I continue to believe that DAoC NEEDS PvE, and that some PvE can be good IF MADE ACCESSIBLE. But even here I don’t have enough elements to comment. Those item slots could be just reserved for the relics (I doubt it), but in every case it’s too soon to rant about them.

Lastly a feature that isn’t in the feature list and that I want to discuss exactly because it isn’t there. All previous expansion with the exception of the last included new technology. New engines, graphic restyles and upgrades. The biggest leap forward was with Shrouded Isles with the whole new engine that partially fixed a mean memory leak that corrupted the screen after a few hours of play, then the higher res textures and a bunch of other details. After it we had ToA with another new (laggy) client, SpeedTree, new multi-layer terrain textures and the support for some new pretty effects. Catacombs didn’t change much in the engine (that is noticeable) but it brought the all-new character models (with mixed results). And Darkness Rising didn’t introduce any new technology either but it accompanied the reskin of Darkness Falls and the capital cities. Minor graphic reskins have continued with the Live patches, but this new expansion won’t bring anything from that perspective. No better technology, no restyles. And I underline this because DAoC’s client is really, really bad and would definitely need work. Even if most of its fault are due to Netimmerse/Gamebryo (the engine they licenced). For example the awful performance and stutter if you play in windowed mode, the impossibility to resize/maximize the window and so on. And you can add the UI to the list.

But that kind of development isn’t competence of DAoC’s current team, I suspect. Those who can touch those sort of things would be already busy with Warhammer.

Btw, if you remember Sanya said that the delay of the announce was also because they were granted more resources and so they could re-add features that were cut. Well, with a second glance at the feature list I really wonder what they were going to put in the expansion if the plan was to add even less than that.

And, quoting from the other post:

However, we’ve got some things coming down the pike that will almost certainly have an impact on those numbers.

I hope it wasn’t this expansion. Because I seriously doubt it will have even a slight positive effect on the population of the game.

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DAoC’s expansion will save the game?

Some more “neutral” comments after the whiny post.

It looks like someone else took my role.

See, the truth is that DAoC’s fanboys and fangirls are VERY HARD to please and I would dare to say that we were even spoilt along the years. When Mythic stops trying, we notice. And our original enthusiasm and dedication backfires.

From my point of view the content of this expansion was quite predictable. After all the rants about the classes in the Catacombs expansion and all the efforts that Mythic had to spend to tweak them along the months, the choice to use just one class shared by the three realms became more and more attractive.

The real problem is that the game has already way too many classes. At this point one more is BETTER than three. Zero would be even better than one, but this expansion for Mythic is like a duty. Something that they have promised and now they have to finish even if they don’t really want to. Because now that the Warhammer is the focus of the attention and of the “serious” development, DAoC is just a burden. A dead weight.

They had to fit something in this expansion. And classes and races seem to be obligatory in the recipe even when they are POISON, as in this case.

If you read the negative feedback about this expansion you notice that the general opinion is quite uniform. There aren’t many complaints about the features themselves (well, there are. But I’ll return on this), but more concerns about the direction the game is taking.

Because the point is that this expansion IS NOT what DAoC would need. That’s what people see. That’s what Amber is ranting about in the link above, and even what I read in a comment here. But what’s new? How is this different from ALL previous expansions? None of them really helped the game. Darkness Rising, Catacombs, ToA. In a few cases they damaged or deviated the game from its track. Not helped.

This isn’t a problem of resources available. This is a problem of an overall model of development used. By definition the expansions are the only way possible to develop significantly the game. To do that kind of stuff that the Live team cannot do alone. At the same time the only real part of the game that can be made optional (which is the true problem) and expandable is PvE.

Please notice: optional and expandable. Take these two terms, then think about “revitalizing the game”. How’s that “optional and expandable”?

That’s the point. It was the real problem since the beginning. The core of the game and the potential and scope of an expansion pack part ways. In the same way ToA derailed the game when the players wanted the RvR to improve. And not that kind of PvE that they can find in a better shape in other games.

But the RvR and all the basic structure of the game CANNOT be worked in an expansion. Because those parts aren’t “optional and expandable”. They need the opposite, they are mandatory and need to be consolidated because there’s already way too much space wasted. CCP solved this problem with Eve. They have a sandbox and they adapt to its model. Eve HAS expansions. And those expansion CAN improve radically the CORE of the game. But they aren’t optional.

So the point is: do not expect that kind of development on an expansion. Not only because it isn’t possible, but because it would even damage the game if that significant work would be restricted to an expansion pack and not the totality of the players (and the game).

Mythic had to deal with that. And their plan to minimize the side-effects was to use the expansions to expand and improve the PvE, while bundling the “technology upgrades” with it. While along the year they tried to work on the RvR and all the other parts of the game that couldn’t be made optional. That’s how we got the “New Frontier” and all those WoW-like eases of use that started to trickle in the game. Looking back, that’s how we got the original masterpiece that was Darkness Falls.

If you ask Mythic what’s their plan about “revitalizing the game”, they answer: “we have done that and always continue to do that.” Now the real question is: are they doing it effectively?

My opinion is that they aren’t doing enough, and I always specified that it’s not a matter of resources, but the way they are used. But then I would also say that that “Catacombs” damaged more the game than ToA. It took Mythic two years to admit the flaws of ToA, and it took them even more to admit the flaws of “/level 20”. I wouldn’t be surprised if one day they’ll even admit that Catacombs design was a big mistake.

Yes, I have ideas about how you could revitalize the game so that it could go from a negative to a positive growth. That idea they “stole” from me didn’t have that purpose and cannot be blamed for it. At least I could suggest some serious attempts that could make that a possibility. Many of these ideas are already in all I wrote. One of these is a reorganization of the overall structure behind “Catacombs” that doesn’t directly touch the content, but only the overall scheme and function. Doing something along those lines while also making the whole expansion (content) free for everyone could already do something. Then you could do the other part working on all the Battlegrounds in the game and convert them to the “Permeable Barriers” design strategy (see point 2), while also working on the BGs to make them all unique and special (with specific rewards and perks), instead of moving linearly toward a complexity.

Want another idea that could draw the attention of more players without requiring too much work? PvP classic servers:

– You take the classic server rules, no ToA, no buffbots
– You unify all the underground zones in “Catacombs” so that all the three realms share the same structure, used also as a “subway” connecting the three realms
– Make all the private instances, public
– Instead of the current “free-for-all” mode of the DAoC’s PvP servers, you retain the three hardcoded realms factions

It would require a quite significant effort to work on the technology (but I think it could be possible with Doom-like “visportals”), but it would also be great if all the Catacombs zones could be made “seamless”, with no zoning. Becoming one big seamless PvE/PvP environment.

Of course the negatives are that it’s yet another server that thins even more the population on the other servers. But, still, it risks to be insanely popular if well executed. And then you can work on the idea, adding mini-games and objectives in each dungeon and maybe doing the impossibe: REMOVE the frontiers entirely. And then reintegrate parts of them directly on the classic zones. With the realms becoming the RvR territories and the players taking control of Ludlow, Prydwen Keep, Cornwall, Ardagh, Mag Mell and so on. In a full PvP world.

So much is still possible. DAoC could still have a so huge potential and still have a lot to say. It could still make pale even the newer game and find its own noteworthy place in the market without getting overwhelmed. The game has still that kind of strength. But it’s a strength that you need to recognize and then pull out of it.

You decide if Mythic is doing that or not.

I believe that not only Mythic made many mistakes along the way (which isn’t bad and can lead to improve) but that they are still making them, and even easily predictable ones. The server clusters were a partial mistake, Agramon was a mistake, Catacombs was an announced disaster whose true effects are only visible today. The implementation of boats, PvP missions and rules to ease the realm unbalance way too weak and inappropriate in some cases.

The point is: there is so much that could be discussed, but I cannot believe that you really hoped that this expansion was going to solve the long-standing problems that this game has always had at the core.

Give credit where credit is due

Some precisations are due after I claimed that Mythic “stole” my idea.

To begin with, I wrote it in a somewhat ironic tone, because I’m definitely not furious about that. As I wrote, the expansion actually looks better than how I expected and I’m glad that they added something interesting into it beside the usual rehated food. Some new design, new ideas. Not just the cow to milk.

So I’m glad. I was waiting for the announce of the press release and I was expecting it to be totally deluding to the point that I wouldn’t even have bothered to write about it here. Instead I’m writing and definitely not in a negative way.

Now what’s important to consider is that whether Mythic really stole my idea or not is… completely irrelevant. There are two reasons:

1- It’s not possible to demonstrate in any way that Mythic stole that idea directly from me
2- I lose EVERY right to complain about my ideas being stolen the second that I write them here publicly

Still, I think i have the right to point this out. I mean, I’m one of the most snubbed and scorned blogger about these games. Still my ideas prove to be valid, eventually. That’s what I’m pointing out.

Let’s take a look at this expansion. One new race, one class, some more skills, items and a dungeon. If the feature list stopped there we would have the death of the game design. There is absolutely NOTHING that would tickle the interest or draw the attention of a potential player. Nothing to talk about because it’s just the same reheated food, the kind of stuff you pull out of the hat when you have absolutely no idea about what to fit in an expansion pack. Like if the expansion pack was more a inconvenient obligation to fulfill instead of an opportunity to realize better the potential and ambition of a game.

The death of game design because it’s a total abdication to develop and improve the game, and just milk the cow till there isn’t nothing left.

So. Honestly. Give a look at that feature list. Read it and then tell me if the idea that they supposedly stole from me isn’t the ONLY ONE that makes that expansion pack at least slightly more interesting. That’s the point.

That’s MY OWN IDEA. There isn’t any fucking doubt that the idea is my own. Then, MAYBE, someone else could have had it in the exact same way I had it. I doubt it, because it looks like it’s EXACTLY the same, applied in the exact same part of the game, with the exact same purpose and mechanics (and maybe the designers read it here, forgot it and then thought they had it themselves…). There are a bit too many coincidences, but let’s still assume that Mythic didn’t deliberately stole that idea. And that they had it entirely on their own.

Let’s take the Mozart example. Mozart composes some of the most incredible songs ever, in Austria. Then, at the other side of the world, at the same time, there is someone else who composes the exact same songs. It is an absolute coincidence but this doesn’t change anything about the validity of those songs. One will become famous and popular, the other not. That other guy at the other side of the world can still do what Mozart did.

Now I’m definitely not Mozart and that idea is just a small one. I don’t care if Mythic stole it from me or if they had it entirely on their own. But it was still my own idea, that I defined in detail, examining and explain all its design implications. An idea that I developed entirely on my own and that maybe was then imagined by someone else entirely on his own. The point is: that idea was valid.

See, in a couple of months this site you are reading will be forgotten. When Mythic will release the expansion everyone will recognize that type of PvP design as their own. Yes, I’m glad when I see my ideas being actually put into use and turn into practice. Because if I write them then it means that I believe they are valid and that people would enjoy them. So I’m glad if this happens. But I think you can also understand how this is terribly frustrating for me.

It is frustrating because I’m always mocked and laughed at. “Haha, look. Another idiot with a blog who thinks to be special”. And I will be laughed at RIGHT NOW because I believe to be so special that a Mythic employee read that idea here and then decided to steal it.

Ryan “Nerfbat/Blackguard” Shwayder wrote a while ago that he wasn’t going to write his own design ideas on his website because he hoped that eventually he could use them in a game. Well, instead I do write those ideas for a similar reason. I write them because I know I won’t have that opportunity, no matter how much I want it.

I know that those ideas I have will never see the light of the day. I write here for that reason. This site is “the ladder to see the stars”. Because I love that world, be part of it, contribute, to discuss things, analyze, examine, find solution to problems and dream of (im)possible things.

I couldn’t be more happy if someone sees how these ideas are good and put them into use. Because that’s ultimately what I would like to do. And even more than that: the opportunity participate. See, it’s the completely opposite idea of feeling like a genius above everyone else. I don’t feel like that, instead what I dream of is being there and do these kinds of things. Work with people who I have esteem for and share that kind of passion.

If I’d know for sure that Mythic came here and stole my idea I couldn’t be more happy. Because it would be a demonstration and a confirmation that those ideas have some worth. And that they aren’t just words wasted on the internet by yet another idiot. But that’s also what it is frustrating. Because I will never be sure if I actually had contributed to that idea or not. And, in the case I did, Mythic will never even turn in my direction to give me credit.

Instead I will continue to get ignored and mocked, by Mythic in the first place and RIGHT NOW. That’s what’s frustrating, when you do something and it’s valid, but never recognized if not when someone else takes it and takes all the credit. It’s a feeling of impotence that even grows when you see how what you do could be, in fact, valid.

And IN PARTICULAR when you always searched a more direct dialogue and all you got was being ignored. And ignored after your ideas are taken and rebranded without even glancing back.

See, I have NO PROBLEM to say that the great majority of the design ideas I have at an high level were inspired by what Dave Rickey was doing on “Wish” before he was kicked out and the project killed (one year later, but it died the one before). I have no problem to admit that without this community, other bloggers, the message boards and all the rest MY HEAD WOULD BE EMPTY about these things. I’m the first to draw from everything I see. Use everything as a source of inspiration. From comics, to books, to movies, to games I play and the ideas I get while I play them. Nothing is original because one things flow after the other and it isn’t even possible to remember what were all the influences. We all contibute to a discussion, a line of thought. Everyone is a source of inspiration. But I DO give credit to all that. And I would give credit back to Mythic itself because DAoC is still the game I loved the most and that inspired me the most.

I started to write exactly a few months after “Wish” as a result of that frustration. See a game with a great potential being driven to the ground. So this site came as the result of a *need*. Because in the month and half that I’ve been involved with the beta of the game I was totally absorbed by it and when I saw everything thrown away, I felt the need to continue along that path. And save something. Let it continue. Put it into use.

So the purpose is about making the ideas flow. Work together because that’s what I do. I don’t just write here and “enlight” the readers with my superiority. Instead I read every other blog, I participate in message boards and I go deep into everything I see. This because the ideas come from there.

The real point is that I just don’t belong where I’d like to be. I’m just an anomaly. This site and all the rest are a way to deal with all that even if I know the way things work, and that it’s not my place.

So the frustration is the essence of it all. I know it well and some more of it doesn’t really change much things. I’m happy that Mythic is going to use a valid idea for the expansion pack.

At the same time you can understand the frustration because I see something to which I dedicate myself, taken away. While I’m still the idiot of the village and have to swallow it.

So I’m not saying “You bastards, that’s my idea and I want it back NOW.” Instead I’m saying “I think that’s a good one and, if well executed, can improve the game. So go on and do it. And maybe go read all I write about it so that you could find suggestions to avoid making some mistakes and better realize it.”

But also remember that I was here and made that work entirely on my own. I don’t have a team to work with and, without that one idea, the expansion would have been quite forgettable.

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DAoC’s expansion announced: The Labyrinth of the Minotaur

I have only five minutes to comment, but I’ll continue later.

The site of the expansion has a somewhat “retro game” feel that I actually like.

The features are better than what I expected:

– One new race (Minotaur) shared by the three realms, as anticipated
– One new class (Mauler) shared by the three realms, as anticipated
– Champion Levels 6-10, as anticipated
– New dungeon: The Labyrinth – Under Agramon (not specified if instanced or shared, but it shouldn’t be RvR)
– Cerberus, end-game encounter
– New Item Slots – Mythical Items. To get from the Labyrinth. No other details about these.

And, the biggest one, imho:

– RvR relics that you bring in RvR but that make your character get hunted by other players

No specific details about this either, but I’m pointing to it because… IT’S MY OWN IDEA!

I’ll link later (or right now), but if you go see the early pages of the “Dream mmorpg” category you can see how I was imagining powerful PvP items (artifacts) that turn the carrier into a Demi-god. In my design idea, these objects were surely “overpowered” (unbalance in PvP is FUN!), but also “full loot”. In the sense that other players who killed you could steal them from your body and becoming themselves a Demi-god.

These powerful items could be summoned only inside very hard PvE instances and then brought back to the PvP world. There were also some limits so that you had to “feed” the item, preventing a player to log out with it and keep it outside of the game for too much time and also forcing the carrier to go out and actually kill people instead of just hide somewhere. In my orginal idea carrying an artifact also “mutated” the graphical appearance of the character, making him bigger and meaner and recognizeable on the battlefield.

Here’s an excerpt from the orginial design:

These artifacts make a player near to a demi-god. One player wielding one or more artifacts can fight alone and win against multiple opponents and will be really, really hard to take down without an organized effort from the opposite side. These demi-gods are supposed to become the focus of the PvP in a similar way to how the “heroes” were used in Warcraft 3. They are special and unique. They artifacts aren’t usable in PvE, they lose all their properties if they are brought in a PvE instance. In order to keep them on your character, you need to “feed” them by killing the players on the opposite factions and have a role in the conquest, participating actively in the PvP. Exposing yourself. If you are hiding you won’t be able to fulfill the “feed” requirements and you’ll lose the artifact. When you have an artifact with you your character will change its appearance and you’ll be recognizable in the battlefield. Even graphically you’ll transform into a demi-god. The other faction will also know that one of the artifacts was summoned and will be able to “divinate” your position in the map. They can track you down. you will be hunted. If you die in a PvP battle, your artifact will be dropped on the ground and one of the players in the opposite faction can loot it and use it, acquiring the powers that were yours. The artifacts are also limited in number. Each type of artifact can have only a fixed (and really small) nuber of “copies” active in a PvP world. The most powerful artifacts are unique and one and only one copy can exist in the PvP world at once. If an artifact is unique, the instance where it can be summoned will be sealed till the artifact remains in the PvP world. There isn’t a time limit to the persistence of an artifact in the PvP world, just its “feeding” and “active” requirements. If the feeding requirement aren’t met, or if the player with the artifact has been logged out for too long, not meeting the active requirements, the artifact is reset to the original PvE instance that will remain sealed for a set amount of time depending on the type of the artifact.

Now I don’t know if Mythic’s relics implementation is really similar to that old idea I had since we only have that line in the features list. But I have suspects :)

Who wants to take bets? And who wants to bet that my idea will still be better than Mythic’s implementation?

OMG! THIEFS IN MY HOUSE! :)

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EQ’s Sick Joke

There is one of the most hotly-contested debates going on right now regarding lack of low level players, and lack of players at all, at eqplayers.com. The title is “Is this a sick joke, or not?”, the forum is The Newbie Zone, and everyone, from those who love EverQuest to those who hate it, have posted. I would like to invite you to check it out, and, perhaps, to post it on your site or blog. It’s bitter, angry, friendly, frighteningly honest, and hilariously insane.

Check it out.

Z.

An excerpt:

Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? [ Edited ] Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 27 of 77

Viewed 534 times

I am on Emarr right now. If I do a /who all 1 20 I get too many names to list.

I don’t get any Zabela’s though.

Edited:

Actually on /who all I get

level count

11 6
12 8
13 6
14 5
15 7
16 3
17 4
18 6
19 3
20 8

Admittedly it is not tons and tons of people, but it is more than one.

Message Edited by Iceblossom on 08-13-2006 06:59 PM

Message Edited by Iceblossom on 08-13-2006 07:01 PM

08-13-2006 06:56 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Akenta
Philosopher
Posts: 141
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 28 of 77

Viewed 515 times

——————————————————————————–
zabela wrote:

Look, when I sign on there is only one server available to me. There has only ever been one server. If there were other options, I would have tried those. I’ve really exhausted all my options here. If I only have access to one server, isn’t that another reason why the game doesn’t work?

——————————————————————————–

A little off topic, but what would cause only one server to show up? I think if we solve this problem, than Zabela can get on a progressive server and group and all will be happy .
08-13-2006 07:01 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 29 of 77

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I think a subscription might be needed. I also think the Progression servers would be a good place to go, but it might be good money after bad to go for the extra $15.
08-13-2006 07:02 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

mitic
Champion
Posts: 302
Registered: 11-23-2005

Reply 30 of 77

Viewed 502 times

——————————————————————————–
Iceblossom wrote:

level count
11 6
12 8
13 6
14 5
15 7
16 3
17 4
18 6
19 3
20 8

——————————————————————————–

yes, i can see now that everquest is still alive and rolling!

sorry, but i could not resist.

Mitic Supermodel, Enchanter (The Combine)

Everquest is Dead, Long Life to Everraid!

08-13-2006 07:06 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Crystabel
Apprentice
Posts: 10
Registered: 12-15-2004

Reply 31 of 77

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Just a note: the /who command only tells you how many people are in the zone, not on the whole server. Right now (I play on Emarr) there are 88 people just in POK. There are about 350 in the Bazaar (obviously not playing, but that is certainly more than 20).

Also, have you gone to the hot zones? There is a sticky on the main page of this particular forum that tells you what zones are giving extra experience for which levels. Many people are in those zones to make good experience. I have made a new character who is now 34 and she has been playing in The Overthere which at times has had about 35 people in it. Not as much as in the old days when Kunark just came out, but pretty decent considering how many zones there are and enough to be able to get into a group. I think Swamp of No Hope is the correct hot zone for your level 15 and you may want to see who is there. If they are not there check Paludal Caverns – there are always players in there since they go from the Tutorial to Paludal until about 20ish because the exp bonus is high in Paludal Caverns. Paludal is connected to Shadow Haven which can be accessed from the Nexus or the Bazaar – both of those zones connect to Plane of Knowledge. Paludal can also be accessed from Shar Vhal but the majority of the players are on the other side at the Shadow Haven end.

When you log into your account do you press quick connect? Entering your password and clicking quick connect will bring you to the server you last played on. If you just enter your password and hit your enter key, or click on the Log In button it will bring you to the server list. There should be many to choose from on that page and there will also be a button on the bottom that say Erollisi Marr on it because it was the last one you were on. However if you click on and highlight another server and click the Play Everquest button you will go to a different server.

I hope that helps a little.

Crystabel

08-13-2006 07:07 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Gryphon_Lord
Journeyman
Posts: 48
Registered: 09-22-2004

Reply 32 of 77

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With an attitude like yours, who cares if you are having fun? Move on to a game that requires less social skills, more inline with the few you possess.

Lui

08-13-2006 07:07 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 33 of 77

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Yes that isn’t a lot of players, is it? Especially when you consider that half of them are in the bazaar. Massive multiplayer? I think no.

Trying another server would be nice, but look, I already paid for the software. I’ve spent hours playing, hoping to meet somebody. Anybody. Somebody at all.

But at my level there are exactly 5 players not sitting in the bazaar. Five. Primetime. Sunday night, 7:00 pm PST, 8 Central, 9 East Coast. Five players. All in different places. All soloing. All frustrated, just like me.

08-13-2006 07:11 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 34 of 77

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Great, and so now people are back to insulting me. I suppose if you can’t come up with any real answers, an insult will have to do.
08-13-2006 07:12 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

mitic
Champion
Posts: 302
Registered: 11-23-2005

Reply 35 of 77

Viewed 485 times

——————————————————————————–
zabela wrote:

Yes that isn’t a lot of players, is it? Especially when you consider that half of them are in the bazaar. Massive multiplayer? I think no.

Trying another server would be nice, but look, I already paid for the software. I’ve spent hours playing, hoping to meet somebody. Anybody. Somebody at all.

But at my level there are exactly 5 players not sitting in the bazaar. Five. Primetime. Sunday night, 7:00 pm PST, 8 Central, 9 East Coast. Five players. All in different places. All soloing. All frustrated, just like me.

——————————————————————————–

man i dont know why you just see one server on your screen…get it fixed and join combine or sleeper for company..thats all the help we can give you

Mitic Supermodel, Enchanter (The Combine)

Everquest is Dead, Long Life to Everraid!

08-13-2006 07:12 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 36 of 77

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Mitic, I’ve said already in this thread that the lower levels are low of people.

But spot checking because I really don’t want to spend the evening typing out /who all and then breaking down when I get too many to list, I found people at every level. And, of course, /who all doesn’t get the role and anon players.

I’m logging out now and going to Combine to see what the numbers are.

08-13-2006 07:13 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 37 of 77

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Ah, I got a real answer from CrystalBel. But no, I do not just hit quick connect. I go to the “list of servers”, which, in my case, provides me with exactly one option.

08-13-2006 07:14 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Mooncage
Philosopher
Posts: 824
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 38 of 77

Viewed 472 times

——————————————————————————–
zabela wrote:

But at my level there are exactly 5 players not sitting in the bazaar. Five. Primetime. Sunday night, 7:00 pm PST, 8 Central, 9 East Coast. Five players. All in different places. All soloing. All frustrated, just like me.

——————————————————————————–

You should ask those 5 if they want to group.

Mooncage

08-13-2006 07:15 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? [ Edited ] Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 39 of 77

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There are right now, specifically, a 13 beastlord and a 15 cleric in Everfrost. One zone away from you. I didn’t go back through the list to see who else may be near by.

Edit:

There is also a 17 paly who has LFG up.

Message Edited by Iceblossom on 08-13-2006 07:18 PM

08-13-2006 07:17 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 40 of 77

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Wonderful! Two players I can group with! What a change! What a response! What a huge number!

May I remind you that its Sunday night, 7:00 pm? Not Tuesday 3am. Not Saturday 6am. Sunday, 7pm. Yes, there are actually a few players I can group with. I guess I’ll just have to limit my playing to exactly prime time. What fun.

08-13-2006 07:21 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Mouse_
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 41 of 77

Viewed 456 times

Hello Zabela,
My husband and I did a similar thing. We played for a few years “back in the day” and have just today decided to reactivate our accounts. We decided that we’d rather start fresh (not wanting to be level 50+ characters that are noobs again) and relearn how we need to play and understand all the changes that occurred since 3 years ago when we quit. We’re on ‘The combine” server and we’re seeing a lot of lower levels and so far (remember we just started again) we have not noticed alot of twinks (level 3 with uber armor and weaps) or power levelers. Which has been refreshing.

I think your real problem lies in figuring out how to start yourself on a new server. When you login, you should not hit the quick server button (or whatever it’s called) you should then get a list of servers to choose from. The progressive ones are the top.

Good Luck, I understand your frustration, when my husband and I quit we were tired of not being able to get groups for our main characters that didn’t take all day or all night. At one time we had the time to do that, but now we in it for the short spurts when we can squeeze in play and hopefully the meeting of friendly and fun people. If we find that it’s not all that, we’ve wasted what $30 total? Not too bad.

I wish you luck and hope you can recaputure your original enjoyment.

Karrah
lvl 2 Barbarian Shaman
The combine server
08-13-2006 07:23 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 42 of 77

Viewed 445 times

Some people don’t want to be helped. Some people delight in being upset.

That there are two people in the next fighting zone from you since you are in Halas and a third that actually (unlike you) has LFG up means, of course, nothing. Because you aren’t satisfied. Not from any other reasons. You just want to throw a tantrum and then cry that you are being insulted. I suppose you mean “soccer mom” in the nicest possible way, don’t you?

The problem is not the game.

08-13-2006 07:31 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Akenta
Philosopher
Posts: 141
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 43 of 77

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Does anyone else think that Ice is starting to sound more like Kharl

(no offense to either of you)

… and it just gets better … :)

Honor system revamp and world PvP

Second batch of comments about the latest news on WoW’s upcoming expansion. This time about the changes to the Honor system and some more details on the “world PvP” that should also have a decent role in the new zones.

The first concern is that with the Arena’s rewards outclassing those coming from the Honor system, the role the latter will have in the game will have to be reconsidered. The impression I get is that Blizzard is trying to somewhat differentiate more the game on playstyles, in the sense that the Arena and Honor system will become two different, alternate paths that will become available in the hope of making everyone happy.

The “casual” player who ranted endlessly along these two years against that horrible Honor system will have it made more accessible, with the Honor points converted into cumulative currency (with the hope that they will also drop the “decay” over time) and where all the rewards are “eventually” reachable with enough persistence, while the “competitive” player will be contented with the Arena system that is going to work as a ladder based on “skill”, so again as a direct answer to what the players have asked for so long.

Initially I was thinking that they were going to use the ladder and calibrated matchmaking system even for the BattleGrounds and the Honor system, but after delving in all those details I have examined about the Arena system, now I’m more sure that they are aiming to keep the two separated exactly to split those two playstyles:

– One about time invested (the revamped Honor system unified with the faction)
– The other giving the illusion of “skill” (the Arena/ladder system)

With the second more selective and where the better rewards will be. So the two paths will be still alternate and aimed at two different types of players, but they won’t prefectly overlap since they are going to fit two different purposes.

See this lame graph I quickly made:

From the left to the right you have the progress and desirability of the reward, near the left there are the rewards more accessible but also weaker, while on the right you move toward the best ones, but also available to less and less players. Both “types” of players will be able to toy with both system but the very best rewards will be only for those at the top of the ladder in the Arenas.

I think Blizzard’s goal in this case is about maintaining the status quo, where only a very small group has access to the best gear, while the large majority of the players sit at the bottom of the pyramid and have a very hard time to move up from there, but with the difference that this time the top of the pyramid will be based on a ladder system built around that ELO rating system. So not anymore rewarding those players who grind the BGs every day at an insane level.

From THIS perspective the changes are good. Because the insane timesink that was the Honor system will be replaced by another quite awful timesink, but that is at least viable. While the Arena system will be based on a weekly ranking system that will measure the PvP performance instead of directly the “time wasted”. So in both cases the PvP will move away from that crazy incentive to never log out the game to not risk to drop in the ranks.

Our goal was not to create a system that involved a massive amount of time investment, it’s counter to all of WoW’s designer philosophy. We’ve never been focused on trying to be a time sink. Our PvP system in its current incarnation is very much like that, so what we’ve done is design a new PvP system that will go live with The Burning Crusade.

What is to still consider is that most people look at the Arena system as something widely accessible, while instead the truth is that it will become the higher-end of the PvP system, the most selective and hardcore.

With all these changes and the split between Honor system and Arena system I suspect that they’ll streamline the first, that now is divided between faction rewards and Honor ranks. With the Honor points transformed into “currency” their purpose directly overlaps with the way the faction grinds work (both become grindy exponential progressions). The underlying mechanic is the same so it’s possible that they will unify them into one.

The Honor points will become generic “currency”, while the factions will offer an incentive to play in every BGs instead of grind points in just one:

The Honor System will be a system where you gain honor points a lot like you do today, but you then just use those honor points as a currency, effectively. That will include items that were previously earned through reputation. We’ll kind of roll those into the Honor System, and it will also include a whole lot of new equipment for level 60 to 70 and beyond

There will be no more ranks in the honor system but those that have been participating will be able to keep anything they’ve earned to date including titles and equipment. The hope is also to encourage players to move between battlegrounds by having some equipment cost basic honor along with specific honor won in different locations.

Summary, with some guesswork:

– Honor points being converted into currency
– Ranks removed from the Honor system and migrated to the Arena/ladder system
– All current PvP rewards merged into one pool of items where each has a different cost
– Faction points being converted in BG-specific Honor points

So even if the items won’t be anymore ranked and will be unified into one pool, they’ll still be divided by BG, where to get one you have to spend some “generic” Honor points along with some “specific” Honor points you get from that BG. My guess is that the “specific Honor” is just going to be the new form of faction points (they said that they were going to revamp even the faction system, but no details yet), so with items requiring Honor + Faction points.


My opinion about the whole thing changed a lot while I was delving more and more details. Initially I was positively impressed, then disappointed when I figured out the way the Arena system was planned and finally went back to reconsider my critics after I placed every element in its place. I think that the plan they have is at least an improvement on the current situation. The Honor system was just stupid and it is being unified with the faction system, hopefully offering a better granularity for the rewards, instead of having to grind for months to just get a piece of armor. After all the juggling the system is more bearable. Still, it’s kind of weak for a PvP system, because they aren’t really tapping on what makes PvP fun in a virtual world.

But given the rules WoW currently has and pursues, overall the changes will work out better. So from a “functional” point of view they are okay. Then we can criticize the merit and the overall model used. For example I think the Arena system, will get EXTREMELY boring, redundant and repetitive. Since it will be highly competitive, after the initial popularity I believe most players will figure out they cannot compete and let the catasses to catass it. That’s what happened already with the Honor system: most people don’t bother.

What is important is to remember what the players really complained about. No, it’s not because they all want purple items and they want them be easy to reach. It was just because outside the PvP grind and the raid endgame there wasn’t much to do in the game. There weren’t “worthwhile alternatives”.

So it’s important to look at all this from the correct perspective. Instead of insisting on the fact that even after all the changes the best items will still fall in the hands of a small minority, what is important is to figure out if the “endgame” that comes in the expansion will offer something that is “worthwhile” even for the casual player. That is fun, that is rewarding. Whatever. Something different from what the game offers now.

People are interested into things to look forward to. This is why we read the previews. Because there’s some delusion about the current game and people are interested to know if in the expansion there is something for them.

In the case of the PvP we’ll see three different models. The Arena system on top, highly selective, with the best rewards dedicated to the most competitive players, then the Honor+faction system, nudged back and sitting on the lower end, with the usual structure in BGs. And then the “world PvP”, the one with “no reward” beside the fun you can get.

Sadly you can see how the last one is the one with the best potential, and still it’s the one completely irrelevant from the “function” in the game. It’s here that we enter in the merit of the problem. Essentially all these changes to the PvP system don’t add or transform much. People already ignore the Honor system just because they cannot compete, the Arena system will be somewhat more fair and practicable since it will depends more on performance than time, but what we’ll see will be just a slight shuffle of players. Some of the players who couldn’t compete in Honor system will have the possibility to compete in the Arena system, and at the same time some players who could compete in the Honor system, won’t have a chance in the Arenas.

Some players will move in, some out. My point is: for the great majority of the players things will remain unaltered.

The Arena system by definition will only interest (still seeing at things strictly from the functional perspective) a very small number of competitive players. So it won’t change the life in the game of the masses, the “world PvP” still has no reward (so again put aside for now), so what is supposed to have the significant impact on the playerbase is the Honor system. Even if we have ALREADY that system active in the form of faction rewards. So where are the changes?

There are two. The first is the hope that the Honor system rewards will be also revamped, so that they will require less of a huge timesink. The progress from one faction level to the next is way too spaced out, and it’s really a quite bad incentive since you see the reward too far away to look appealing. As we know these kinds of games are fun when the rewards are well-paced, frequent. If between an armor piece and its upgrade you are required to grind for three months full time then you can see how the system will still suck greatly. Here the problem is mostly about having to rely just on gear for the PvP rewards, so it’s more a structural flaw in the concept of the game.

The second is that, even if the Arena system will “matter” for a small number of players, it should still serve perfectly the purpose of the “time waster”. Without caring much about the loot to get at the end, the players could just like the cheap&quick fights in the Arenas. Even if you suck in the ladder system, it can still become a great way to kill time between an instance and the other, or group with a few guildies and have some quick, mindless fun. The idea of using very small teams and cross-faction matches is a great one because this will remove the queues and possibly have these arenas “always on”.

After all the players already duel all the time outside of the capital cities. The Arena system will become for many just that kind of low-commitment environment. In a game so strongly focused on “progress” and “investment” this could be a minor detail. But I suspect that instead it’s exactly because it will be so easily accessible that it could become truly popular and a phenomenon on its own. Again not because of the reward, but just because it’s a kind of casual playstyle within a broader game. With the big guys fighting for the carrot, while everyone else fights for the low-commitment fun.

A place where to go to “chill out”. Between a “serious” game session and the other. So the strength of the arena system will be in the fact that it actually LACKS a purpose. Instead of the big carrots at the end.


Let’s recap. We’ll have an Arena system with a double use. Where most of the players will go just to chill out and have some quick, mindless fun after an instance and the other, while a small minority will play it as an highly competitive environment, then we have the Honor system and the various BGs, which basically remains unaltered from what we have already in the game and where the players will farm points to get the loot. And finally we have the “world PvP”.

For the fun and the glory. But with no rewards.

Here is where I have some ideas that go in the exact opposite direction of what Blizzard is trying to do. To begin with, I would instantly remove forever the Honor points outside the BGs, so that the game goes back to that model I loved.

Then I would convert the “PvP objectives” in each zone to fit in the system I was suggesting to replace the current one. Flag those PvP objectives as “hotspots” and then reward Honor points for each kill the closer it is to the Hotspot. So that the PvP action can actually converge on those points and achieve three major goals:

1- Discourage ganking (no points if the kill happens far away from a PvP objective)
2- Leave relatively alone those who don’t want to be bothered (avoid the PvP hotspots)
3- Plug back the “roleplay” and “choice” into PvP (explained two links above)

Sadly this won’t happen and we’ll have to continue to deal with an half-assed implementation of world PvP. Exactly that part of the game with the most potential and that is instead the most deluding.

Some of the ideas they have about the mechanics and purposes are good. The point is that it’s the overall scheme to suck.

We also want to get world PvP flowing again in WoW. A lot of players missed it, so every Outlands zone was designed with a major PvP objective in mind.

All of the zones in Burning Crusade will include objective PvP areas. One of those was in a lush green zone we had our first chance to get a look at today called Nagrand. Smack in the middle of the zone is a neutral town that can be captured for the Horde or Alliance. The owner of the town will have access to merchants that have items unavailable anywhere else along with some other bonuses.

More interestingly, the gameplay surrounding the zone will involve stations set up on the four bridge entrances into the town. For instance, if the Horde holds the town, the Alliance will be able to set up griffon towers that players can use to fly across the town (on a rail) and drop bombs onto the NPC guards and enemy players. Attackers will have to aim and blast what they can quickly because defenders can run across the bridge (without dying of course) and click on the towers to knock them down. Once the NPC guards have been killed the town can be captured in the same way that flags are captured in Battlefield games.

See, these idea about the specific gameplay sound quite fun, the problem is the context.

Sadly the world PvP directly overlaps with the purpose of the BGs and this situation could be solved only with a more radical approach. So let me dare:

1- Remove those fucking diminishing returns on the Honor points, they were retarded since the very beginning
2- On the PvP servers only give Honor points in world PvP, nothing in BGs

Then the Honor system can be kept separated. From a side we have the “faction” rewards that are specific for each BG. As per the official description above, each reward will have a cost divided into “generic points” and points gained in that specific BG.

On The PvE servers, you would gain Honor points BOTH from fighting in a BG and in the world PvP. While on a PvP server the “generic” Honor points would be gained exclusively in the world PvP, while you would get in the BG instance only those points that are specific.

This would have the positive result of making the world PvP much more viable and popular on the PvP servers, while the cross-server BGs will also prevent the population in the BGs to thin out.

At the end this step MUST be done. On the PvP servers or it’s one or the other, you cannot support both. If there isn’t a purpose in the world PvP, people will just ignore it. Because after the initial burst everyone will still pass the great majority of the time closed in an instance. And that’s the death of the world PvP.

You need a reason to bring them out. The world PvP has the potential to be more fun, varied and compelling than just farming points endlessly in a BG. I think it’s time to valorize this part of the game and also offer it a role.

Posted in: Uncategorized | Tagged:

WoW’s Arena system: more hardcore than ever

Most of the news are about PvP and I think this is not surprising since it’s possible that Blizzard is starting to see that there’s indeed a large demand on that front:

What are you guys doing to counteract people from dropping their WoW accounts?

I think it’s a multi-tiered approach. The problem is that everyone has a different play style and WoW is such a big game and so diverse, that there’s not that one thing that people want. I think the revamp of PvP will be huge. I think a lot of people bowed out because of the PvP system. I think we will show people that we care about the PvP system and we want to make it how you want it to be. I think because we are doing this in such a big way it will be huge. I also think that the fact we are changing the raid cap and dungeon difficulty, will also add to gamers wanting to stay or come back.

The biggest news is about the changes to the Honor system, but after digging the details I noticed that there are still some dark spots that may lead to whatever situation.

Right now there are already two system tied to the PvP: faction points and Honor. Blizzard repeated that they are going to redesign completely the faction system but they didn’t specify anything about it in these last previews. There are just too many omissions and unanswered questions to figure out exactly how things will work.

The more I read and digged the details, the more I noticed the smell of burnt food.

The Arena system

You’ll be able to join a team: 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5. There are two different modes you can play: One is called practice mode to hone your skills and the other is competitive mode, which is level 70 only.

it can be Horde vs. Alliance or Horde vs. Horde or Alliance vs. Alliance and cross-server. With that, we anticipate there will be little, to no queues for this.

You can get the best rewards in the game on par with the raid game. So, wherever the raid game loot is currently at, the PvP arena system will match those rewards. And, the arena system is a seasonal system that will last three months then reset with a new set of rewards each season. It’s a competitive-based ladder that uses a rating system similar to the chess ELO rating.

you form your team, and your team may change in rating throughout the season. At the end of each week, based on your team’s rating, you get a number of points that you can spend on the gear.

I guess the arena system is completely different from the Honor system. So: level 70 required for rewards, better rewards coming from arena matches only, different loot every three months, weekly ranks based on “skill”, no queues.

See, it *seems* accessible, but I have the suspect that this will be as hardcore as ever. That’s what I meant when I said that I saw some shady spots. For example there isn’t a clear statement saying that the Arena system won’t have decay on the weekly points you gain, and that there won’t be a point-wipe at the end of every season.

If you notice the best “PvP rewards in the game on par with the raid game” are exclusive of the Arena system and not extended to the general Honor system and BattleGrounds. If they put here the biggest “carrot” then you can be sure that they plan this system to be very hard to cap. Or at least harder to cap.

People may believe that with the Honor points becoming currency that you can spend, eventually everyone will be able to reach the rewards at the top. I don’t think this is what Blizzard is planning. What I read between the lines is that the Arena system will essentially mimicking what the Honor system is now. Points decay, maybe the three months wipe and the weekly ranking. Who’s at the top gets the reward. The only difference is that not only they are removing the persistence of the points you spend from week to week (if there’s decay and regular wipe as I’m guessing) but they are ALSO removing the points during the same week. This is MORE HARDCORE than the current Honor system.

In the current Honor system the points you gain each day are cumulative and are counted at the end of the week. Given enough persistence everyone can heap enough points to climb the PvP ranks. With the new system you don’t get any points. You are instead ranked weekly in relation to the performance of others teams. The rewards will be ranked even in the case you gain points to redeem freely. “Spend you points to get one of these rank 1 items”.

This means that in the old Honor system, with enough (insane) persistence you could eventually reach the top ranks. It was insane, sure, but it was possible. With the new system the top ranks are just precluded. Or you ARE the very top player on your server who doesn’t lose ANY match, or you’ll just have to deal with your mediocrity and suck it up. Because the point is that you’ll never have the opportunity to change that.

With this new system a “loss” insn’t anymore just a step on the place that slows down the progress you are making. A loss will actually kick you back because it is going to have a negative influence on your rank. The best PvP system (as PvE) is the one that keeps you on the move. That encourages you to try more and better. That doesn’t overly frustrates you if you lost. A loss shouldn’t be punitive because that’s the death of fun PvP. You are supposed to have fun, enjoy the battles, eventually get the rewards. If you win, good. If you lose, okay, it will be different next time. And not have you obsessed about not losing any match.

Now this system worked on the Warcraft’s RTS because there was the ladder, but just the ladder. You didn’t get better units if you were on top. In WoW the ladder auto-enables itself. You win matches not just thanks to your skill, but also thanks to your gear. The more you win, the more you’ll be stronger and continue to win. The more you lose, the more you’ll continue to lose.

How’s this accessible?

I’ll repeat again: if Blizzard is going to put the biggest carrot here, you can be sure that the carrot won’t be accessible at all.

Three months, seasonal rewards. Tigole says that to be ranked you only need 10 matches. Ten matches for three months? Come on, that’s just too odd. In fact the ranks are weekly. You are ranked weekly depending on your performance. Let me quote:

Awards for the (Arena) competition will be more lucrative than those available in the honor PvP system.

They are opening a chasm here. The Honor system and this arena system will be detached. The Honor “points” you gain mean nothing in the Arena system. Moreover, the overhaul to the Honor system that transforms Honor points into a cumulative currency isn’t going to be valid in the Arena system.

Let me reconstruct the steps:

– The Honor system is pure catass, players complain for two years
– Blizzard gives up and transform Honor points into currency
– But doing that then every player will be able to eventually get the best rewards! *SHOCK!*
– So they nudge back the Honor system in the food chain
– And add on top an Arena system that is more Hardcore than ever and whose rewards dwarf everything that was in the game till that point

You know, in a mmorpg “value” is relative. It’s true that maybe the Honor system will become more accessible, it’s also true that they it will be worthless after its rewards will be replaced by the NEW and TRUE pure hardcore mode that is the Arena system.

This PvP system is going to be more hardcore than ever. Even the weekly persistence of points is going to be replaced by a rating system that will become even more selective. Where the players at the top will gain even more advantage and where the players at the bottom will just have to give up.

The scenario? The scenario is that those who have access to the best PvE gear will also dominate the PvP ranks, while those players who cannot get that initial advantage will just have to resign to bite the dirt.

Hint, hint: nothing is going to change. You’ll still be ranked toward your own faction and the system will be even more inflexible and accessible than how it is currently.

They gave the illusion of change, but at a less superficial look it’s obvious that they are going to persist in their mindset.

Moreover, it’s just sad and deluding that the best rewarded form of PvP will be an endlessly repetitive form of small and quick skirmishes between an handful of players in an instanced space.

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Blizzard lits the fire under The Burning Crusade

I like this fire, mostly. I like it more than how I expected. <– (that’s the first impression, then it changed)

Facts are coming from an interview with Jeff “Tigole” Kaplan its mirror interview with Tom “Evocare” Chilton (it’s quite obvious that they agreeed beforehand what they were going to say since they use even the exact same phrasings) and a preview on IGN.

Summary:
– Honor points to tansform into cumulative currency (bound-to-BG in some cases)
– Raids capped at 25 players
– Arena system for smaller fights (2v2, 3v3, or 5v5)
– Arena seasonal rewards and ladders based on weekly chess ELO rating
– Arena matches between same-faction groups (no queues)
– Arena PvP gear to be kept in line with the best PvE gear
– World PvP objectives in the expansion zones (town control)

Lum is back on his chair. The commentary was so good that I decided to not write anything here, even if I disagree on some points.

Then I examined things more in detail and finished to write even too much. So I have to split.

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Is DAoC growing?

If you look at the graph of total players in the US, not really:

More or less the game is losing players since February 04. Steady in the last couple of months but not sitting in a very positive condition since it’s still sitting at the very bottom of its overall performance.

If you look at the graph of total players in the EU, not really either:

Right now the two regions have 50% of the subscribers (or better, active users) respectively, and both used to have much more months and years ago. A rough esteem of the number of total subscribers would put them at around 120-130k or slightly less considering the trends of the game.

Then Sanya said something about Gareth (one of the no-TOA servers) trending up in the last Grab Bag, and I went to see:

Yep, trending up and quite surprising. Is this an inversion of tendence? Well, it’s something but it still needs to be reproportioned if you look at the other cluster that shares the same ruleset of Gareth:

Gareth gained around 500 players, the Lamorak cluster lost nearly 400. More like a migration considering that the cluster has continued to decline since Gareth was taken as the “preferred” server.

Still, Sanya is right when she says that clustering Gareth could lead to issues. The servers usually cap at 3000 players and it doesn’t really matter if the servers are clustered instead of merged since the RvR zones is where the problems will arise (since those are shared). It would be possible right now, but would there be the risk of DAoC gaining some new players?

However, we’ve got some things coming down the pike that will almost certainly have an impact on those numbers.

You’ve got me curious.

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