PvP and NPCs

I was rethinking some parts of my dream mmorpg and considering the use on NPCs in the massive PvP. We have practical examples in DAoC and WoW, and they both suck.

But I remember that when Blizzard announced the possibility to fight in the battlegrounds along with the NPCs the idea sounded very cool and exciting. So I was trying to figure out if it was just a stupid idea or if it was the execution in both DAoC and WoW to make it awful.

I’m obviously leaning toward the second possibility. I believe that there’s one bigger problem that ruins the experience: the respawn. It may sound cool to have a role in a bigger battle and fight along squads of NPCs, but this situation suddenly becomes rather lame if you know that those NPCs will respawn two minutes later and will charge back on you as if you just kept fighting an army of unbeatable undeads. In this case the NPCs become just annoyances getting in the way. They ruin the PvP instead of adding to it.

So I make here a point. Having numerous NPCs contributing to a large battle with organized squads and even NPCs named heroes is all good and exciting. Something that has lots of potential to untap. But this work only if there is *persistence* in this scenario and if an NPC dying won’t respawn if not after a fair amount of time (from battle to battle, not from minute to minute). Killing NPCs should set a progress. Like when we moved in the classic games from the random, constant encounters to a finite number of baddies to beat in a level. In this case I believe the fun would return.

The problem is how you counterbalance the fact that the *players* will keep dying and coming back while the NPCs won’t. I’ll have to figure this out.

Voice chat – Another modern myth

It started as a discussion on F13, also anticipated by Darniaq. One of those topics that will become more and more important (and recurring) as time passes. And again I had to fight against this tendency as I did already with the DKPs.

The pattern is similar and was prefectly described by Darniaq. Also fitting as a conclusion (and here as the starting point):

What actually matters is the rules players set. You can mock and sneer all you want, but if 39 people use Voicechat for Raiding or PvP or just dicking around at the Auction House, the 40th person is going to use Voicechat too.

Players make the rules. Everyone else decides to follow them or gets excluded.

The point is that the players constantly work to make the game worst. Always. If you read Raph’s book you already know this behavior in the form of transforming the fun into absolutely boring and repetitive actions (see this). If you read AFKgamer you can see clearly how *that* type of “design” is merciless and selfish. Definitely not helping the game and its community in the long term. But selections are always done and the progress is always built on top of the “victims” that are constantly being excluded. Foton says that these online worlds are not appropriate for real life principles but, instead, he makes obvious exactly the opposite. He underlines how they are similar. How everything is built on top of a merciless selection, maybe more or less blatant and justified, but still there.

To understand better what I mean I could bring the example of how the content is used. Lets imagine that the game offers two different paths. One offers complex and interesting quests, bringing the players to group together and explore the world. The other is a small instanced dungeon with a row of mobs standing still, possible to solo and with a calibrated difficulty for your party. With a big experience and money boost as you finish the dungeon in 10-20 minutes. Ready to zone out and back in to rinse and repeat.

Well, the first obviously sounds more interesting and we could expect the players to ignore the second path. Instead what actually happens is the opposite. All the content of the first path will be completely deserted. The few players willingly to experience it won’t be able to do so since there won’t be anyone else around that is willingly to group and, as anticipated, most of that content isn’t accessible for the solo player. So it doesn’t exist. This may sound as a teoric example but it isn’t. This is exactly what happened to DAoC with the release of the “Catacombs” expansion. So definitely not something made up by me.

Now what is important is to understand WHY the players work constantly to ruin and dumb down their own experience. Again Raph’s notes help to figure out this point. In this case he was commenting the violence in games but what he says is valid even for different contexts. Players “see past fiction”, they know and see what the game is about often before the designers realize what it is (in particular when they are bad designers).

In this case the players know that the game is nothing more than a treadmill. They know that the only impact they have on the game world is about their loot, money, and experience points. There isn’t anything else. The persistence of the world is summarized into those three elements. The rest is faked. The rest is fiction. And the players “see past fiction”. They see a ladder and they see two paths to climb that ladder. The second path I described above is faster. More efficient. Functionally optimized. It doesn’t even have the added burden of “dealing with people” since it’s soloable. So most of the players choose this pattern and all the remaining players will just HAVE TO follow. As Darniaq explained above.

Now. We know that the DKPs problem comes directly from design problems. We have examples where the distribution of the loot lacks proper tools (DAoC) or is perceived as unfair or bugged (WoW), so the players look into ways to override the standard rules and bend them to their own advantage. In fact the system wasn’t actually unfair. It was actually too fair and not appropriate for the selfish desires of the players. Because the concept of “fair” for a player is about whatever comes to the personal advantage (which also explains some constant and contradictory rants about the perceived “unbalance” in these games). In fact the DKPs system was created to bend the rules to the personal advantage of a smaller group.

This is why we design (and will have to continue to). Because people are bad. We are selfish and violent, ready to take advantage of the other. Without laws, governments, myths, morals, religion and principles we would be just animals eating each other. Lum says: Men are two days from savagery. And it’s true. Nothing changes when it comes to the internet and online worlds. It can be actually worst because we have the added problem of the anonymity. We have often examples of people stating that they don’t want to play with others because “other people kind of suck” (both Anyuzer and Foton often comment along these lines even if I wasn’t able to track proper links). Often there’s this funny quote that says that the first problem of a mmorpg is the fact you have to deal with other people.

Again, this is why we design. Why there are selected people with the competence to do this very specific work. In this case so that everyone else can have fun, avoid the griefers and possibly building social ties that will help to retain subscribers in the longer term and make the game world more meaningful and interesting.

This brings me back to the problem of the voice chat. In this case the reaction of the players isn’t the result of bad design as it was for the DKPs. It’s just about the players using their own tools, external to the game, to ease the experience. In this case to overcome the limits of a chat box and the slow use of a keyboard. This is nowhere different from the RMT problem, the players are finding more and more ways to disrupt their own experience and ruin the game and erase other possibilities. Cheats are yet another form of the same pattern.

As it happened for the DKPs system, the players now justify the need of external tools like Teamspeak or Ventrilo, stating that the new games require more “skill”. And more skill requires ways to quickly communicate to be able to deal with these new and complex encounters. So it’s not possible to play anymore without, because the encounters are now too hard, they require organization and good players. What a beautifully crafted myth :)

The reality is that nothing at all changed. If anything the new encounters are even more stupid and simple. They are surely more polished and good looking but still remixing the same old ingredients that now are actually rather stale and dull. What the new games do well is to create and exploit the “confusion”. As I commented in the thread on F13, the difficulty in the raid encounters is about making people behave. Listen and follow orders. WITHOUT taking the initiative, without stepping outside their defined role. Without reacting to what happen and disrupting the “tactics”. The new games know that the whole difficulty in a raid is about making people behave and this is why outside the standard pattern (aggro management) they add timed spell effects that disrupt the situation, create confusion, send everyone fleeing around (or fling people in the air) or spam massive AOE attacks or multiple stages (like Onyxia) requiring mass repositioning. It’s choreography. Choreography is hard because it requires everyone to “behave”. To learn a role and repeat it over and over till it matches what everyone is doing. It is perceived as hard because most of the players have soloed till 60, so they cannot relate to a concept like “coordination”. They aren’t used to deal with other players and play together. They aren’t used to fail because someone didn’t pay attention and ruined the encounter for everyone else.

Within this frame the raid encounters ARE harder. They ARE complex (“complicated” would actually be a better word). But they NOWHERE require the use of the Voice Chat because the gameplay is just about mastering the “choreography”, repeating it over and over and over till it’s perfect. Till you can do it while half asleep and watching TV. There is NOTHING that requires a sudden decision making. The best raid and PvP groups will be those formed by players that DO NOT NEED TO SPEAK to maximize their performance. Because they know exactly their personal role into the bigger playfield, they know exactly where their mates will be and when. All these more or less complex tactics aren’t defined and performed “on the fly”. Noone has ever killed Onyxia or another raid encounter “on the fly”. These strategies are thought, like the were created, offline. Then tried and refined. And finally performed “on stage”.

The role of the voice chat is zero. ZERO. If not to make people behave, to yell at them and try to keep them awake.

My point is that the Voice Chat is an ease and nothing else. People are lazy and they love eases. Players justify the use of these external tools stating that these encounters are too hard if not impossible without. But this is obviously false as it was false that the DKPs system was created to make the loot distribution “fair”. These are silly excuses. They are far from the reality. There is nothing in these games that couldn’t be accessed with just the tools the game makes available. But then everyone wants Teamspeak and all the UI tools like RaidAssist. They want them simply because they love the eases. Playing on the thin line between what is legal and what is an exploit.

My conclusion isn’t different from the quote from Darniaq I posted above, with the difference that I don’t like to adapt myself to a false principle. I know that the Voice Chat is an ease and is useful and better than text and chat boxes. In fact I believe that this is another part, along the whole UI, that is destined to be completely removed. It’s the inheritance of an archaic model that is now felt obsolete and will progressively fade. There is no choice. Game companies will second the desires of the players and will have to adapt (along with the related difficulties), whether it is good or not. Whether they actually understand the desires of the players or not.

The Voice Chat isn’t different from the gap between text-based MUDS and graphical mmorpgs. The players will always choose the ease and will always move toward more natural patterns that can grasp more directly what these games are about (the myths, not the mechanics). As always, we’ll lose and gain a lot. At the same time.

But this doesn’t mean that I justify the damage that these awful communities are doing to these games. It’s completely false that the use of third party programs is required by the game. That’s completely made up and I explained the reasons above. Among those who can access and use these “eases” there are players who cannot (bandwidth and connection problems, hardware etc..) or do not want to (cannot be loud at night, wake up kids, breaking the immersion etc..). The advantage of the voice over text is fluff and nowhere mandatory to enjoy and successfully deal with PvE raid encounters and competitive PvP. This is why I do not criticize nor fight against who decided to use the “eases”. But I surely don’t accept the fact that the community is actively segregating those who cannot or do not want to use them. And I accept even less the stupid justifications used as excuses. The voice chat is again a simple choice. A choice that is nowhere required or mandatory to obtain outstanding results in these games, both on PvP and PvE.

Without the voice chat the raid encounters would be still be won, without a noticeable difference on the performance and just requiring some more organization and attention from the participants (which could even have a positive effect over the voice chat).

Other players (and a fair number of them) are being excluded just because of lazyness. Just because, once again, these games are nothing else than phat leet and everyone has learnt to stab the other in the eye, if it is convenient. Or you are in, or you are out. People are selfish and they care about you only in the case you are useful as a tool.

My guild in WoW readily booted me when they discovered that I wasn’t going to use the voice chat. The seven months we played together meant jack shit, speaking of social ties. I wasn’t useful anymore and easily replaced. So don’t fool yourself when others say that mmorpgs are about the people. Because they are about the phat loot and the selfish greed. Because this is what these game have taught. “Games are drugs”. And the players are particularly receptive about being selfish than they are about accepting others.

So, again. If these games are about learing, what exactly are we teaching?

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DAoC: Darkness Rising – Screenshots hype

I already posted some links to the screenshots showing the reskinned Midgard and Hibernia capital cities that will come with the Darkness Rising expansion, which is going to be released as a digital download priced at $19.99 ($29.99 bundles with “Catacombs”) in little more than a week (October 11), it seems.

The artwork is *impressive* and I congatulate myself again with this (or these) unnamed talent that Mythic hired (I really don’t believe this is the result of the same artists there worked on the game at release). Both the textures and the architecture (and lighting) of the environments top whatever has been seen in this genre, despite some design shortcomings.

Following here (press the “read more” link on the right) I’ll post some screenshots (from a Vault thread and slightly too dark) showing some of the new content. The Midgard king in particular is a masterpiece (while the boss mobs are a little too silly and “Doom” looking, despite I love the wings on the spider-fat guy).

I’m looking forward to take and show my own screenshots once the expansion is launched. I’m not in beta but the NDA will be lifted at the beginning of this new week, so there could be more infos to comment.



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Dream mmorpg – How to solve RMT through “communism”

Saving another old discussion about my fancy ideas.

Darniaq:
How do we “solve” the “problem” of RMT?

Through communism.

Really, solving this problem is extremely easy and can be done in hundreds of ways. What lacks is the will to do so.

To explain some more my idea (that is just one of those hundreds other possible ways):

I divide the “objects” in the game world in two groups:
– Player-centered tools
– Commodities

All the objects in the first group are the traditional loot we have in other games. Weapons, armors and other stat-enhancing items. Since these objects are directly tied to the PvE experience, they are cut out completely from the economy. They are not tradeable.

The concrete form of this idea is that the magical items develop personal paths. Think to WoW talent tree, a similar system will be used for each object and it will be the object itself to provide more skills and powers to the player. So there’s a personal tie and uniqueness between one item and its owner. If the item is traded it will lose all its proprieties and the player will have to restart the path. So no twinking, the PvE experience and its patterns are untouched and cannot be messed from the outside. There’s no external intervention.

This first system is completely closed.

Then there’s a second group. The objects in this second group (the “commodities”) don’t hold a value for the single player (they aren’t used in “solo”) but they are meaningful for the wider community. For the guilds and for the realm. On The PvP conquest system the players will have to manage their territories, gather resources and move them between places, commerce within the borders of the realm and outside (think to elements of an RTS joining the PvP metagame to simulate a world).

This is the level that already by design is “shared” and communal. So it’s this level that will be flagged as “tradeable” and so part of the economy (while the first level above is completely precluded from an economy). In this case the trading system doesn’t affect nor can ruin the PvE experience of the players. It’s not an external violation of something that was supposed to remain closed (the PvE, the fights, the quests, loot drops and so on). It’s instead the REAL commercial level working properly along with its premises.

The players will commerce those goods that have an effect on the meta level, those goods that are already designed to have a communal use, so already designed to be shared and reused. The economic system exists outside the single players, where these players gain a status already dependent on their role within the community.

This is how the PvE experience is preserved without being violated by an external, unexpected intervention, and how the economic system remains stronger and even more deep and meaningful because already part of that “shared endgame” that is usually completely lacking from this games (where everyone just think to himself and his uberness).

This system is completely impermeable to something like IGE because it would require them to play the game.

Noel:
If there is a market for something, someone will provide that service or good. In other words, so long as someone is missing something they want (be it a game item or a new car), someone else will be willing to provide that to them. I think the real question isn’t ‘What’s the problem?’, but rather ‘Is there a solution that doesn’t make a game less fun?’

The fact is that the example is a recursive system that doesn’t seem to possibly work in another way. It’s a paradox because it recursively implies itself, so there’s no escape (as you said).

As for every paradox the only way to solve it is to break the model. If you break the model you’ll see where the paradox was blind.

The paradox, in this case, is that in a game where only the single players has a value (is a goal) nothing can be accepted from the outside. Because this disrupts the experience. That experience that the players is supposed to live instead of “buy”.

An economic system (that doesn’t suck), can exist only if the game has already shared/truly-communal processes. Right now the games have nearly zero persistence and depth, so nothing matters outside the personal level and the economic systems we have now are often “exploits” to break the game (twinking, for example).

EDIT- I anticipate discussions. Some relevant points also in the comments here below.

From Game to Virtual World: quick quote

I’m parsing/archiving some old discussions. This comment from Jon Carver caught my eye:

In the world vs. game debate I think that worlds should be built and then games can be made within those worlds. When you have a world you have the possibility to create many different kinds of games.

My reply back than was:

For redundancy and to simplify my opinion the transition to the Virtual Worlds happens on the placement of the “game” parts. That’s the difference, how the elements are placed. Their position to form a complex system. Where the elements aren’t all detached and independent but strictly belonging to the same structure.

What builds a world is the ties between these parts. It’s not that a “world” has many different “games” instead of focusing on one. The real definite trait is that in a world the elements are put in a context, they affect other parts, there is an interdependence.

All the suggestions Darniaq listed here are still just about combat or movement. Still they directly make a “world”. This is a demonstration of why it’s not a matter of piling up sub-games, but just putting those elements in a self-consistent relationship.

The keyword can be “relationship”. Relationship between the players, between the players and the world and back from the world to the players. The more ties your game has between its parts, the more it moves near to a Virtual World.

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