I’m finishing to archive the ideas and comments about the open PvP system I suggested for WoW and EQ2 after I criticized the last plans for the latter.

This is about ganking, rewards, objectives, specialized playstyles and “choice” in PvP. I’ll keep the comments about the factional balance separated.

—

Jason Cross:
Well it’s an interesting idea, but Blizzard kind of already does this with Battlegrounds. Only instead of the “PvP hotspot” being a point in the real world, it’s in an instanced zone so the performance of a heated battle doesn’t affect the PvEers with undue lag.

The BattleGrounds remove the persistence from the game, which is the whole fun about fighting FOR A REASON. Instead of fighting just for the sake of it. It removes all the purposes and impact you can have.

Simply put: I think I’m not the only one who loves a lot more the open world PvP than quick instanced games. If I want that type of gameplay I don’t launch WoW. It’s not there the potential of the game. Blizzard copied it just because it was easier to do for them.

In your system, unless I am mistaken, you are still technically capable of engaging other players of the opposing faction anywhere in the world. That’s enough to ruin it – game over. If you’re a “grey” in WoW, people will gank you. They get no reward for this, and no punishment. You’re not worth honor points. They did it because you were there, and they think it’s funny that you have to come back and get your corpse now. Sometimes they’ll hide out and wait for you to res, and then gank you again. “HAHA noob u suck!” I’ve had it happen to me plenty of times.

Yes, ganking is allowed but not rewarded, nor punished. As I said: it is a *choice*.

Imho, this adds to the game. Because it’s not anymore the game telling you: “kill that enemy, it’s a walking bag of points”. Instead it says: look, that’s another player, you can choose to disrupt his gameplay, annoy it, challenge him, dance with him or even help in with a quest. It’s your choice. It’s a way to let the players free to build their own stories, characters and gameplay. Without the game system whispering in your ear what you should do.

Before the Honor System went in to transform me into a walking bag of points I teamed up many times with horde players to complete quests. We couldn’t speak, but we could still DECIDE how our characters behaved. I decided to NEVER attack the horde and the system was open and allowed this enriching depth.

On the other side you can still be ganked but you have PLENTY of ways to escape that and move away. This has never been a real problem. And if it is it should be tackled from this perspective (giving the players more tools to escape) instead of ENFORCING behaviours, making the game so stupidly arid.

You can still ask for help in these situations. This is the social fabric of the game and it is PRECIOUS. It isn’t something to shot down. There’s a threat, you are called to react to it. And you have plenty of ways to do so or avoid it if you so choose.

Is it better EQ2’s system where the players are encouraged to gank other players to loot their gold, junk items and inflict them xp debths? Is this more accessible?

Tell me.

It doesn’t seem like your system will address this at all. It centralizes the action at specific places in the overall world for those seeking rewards, but those that want to gank people for entirely social reasons are still free to terrorize the countryside.

And you are wrong. My system also completely addresses this.

You don’t want the PvP to “get in the way”? At all? Ok -> PvE servers.

The proposed system was thought by me with both PvP and PvE servers in mind.

The PvP servers follow the rules described. The PvE servers also follow the same rules, with the difference that you have to flag yourself deliberately if you decide you want to move toward an hotspot and fight there.

How’s this bad? Tell me.

That’s the point of having two separate rulesets. It’s your choice if you want to erase the possibilities of a PvP server and have something more “controlled”.

It also encourages loads of people to fight it out in particular zones – if you spread out and try to capture lots of hot spots, you don’t get PvP points. You get them by everyone engaging on ONE hot spot, trying to take it over and have lots of nearby enemy targets to get PvP points from. This would create terrible lag because it’s in the open world and the numbers can’t be controlled like in an instance.

That’s one goal and should be balanced accordingly.

As the Honor System went in, all the PvP in WoW was focused on Southshore. It was hardly fun, I agree.

The goal is to spread the action between 4-5 hotspots instead of just one. This isn’t really a problem, it just needs the rules to be tweaked, tested and reiterated. (mostly about balancing the amount of points awarded when you conquer an hotspot and those generated over time as log you keep it capped)

—

dannimal:
The idea that the honor system converted players into “walking bags of points” and thus destroyed any hopes of freewill on behalf of the players, or that the game system is “whispering in your ear” is where I have issues.

—

Darniaq:
The value of the reward is linked to the combat system to get it. As such is a paradox:

The greater the value of a PvP reward, the more people will try to get it, the more that process will be dominated by those who achieve higher stats first, the more other people are cut out, the more likely those people cut out would end up going with PvE anyway.

I’m against the specialization in PvP or PvE. Like it is happening in WoW.

I believe that a player should be able to get the most from each part and access both instead of specialize just in one. So the idea is just to offer two different paths, both viable and not exclusive.

The *current* system in WoW cuts out people because it is based on a selection. In my idea you gain the points and spend them directly. So you can grow at your own pace, without having to “race” and catass against everyone else.

Not partaking of PvE in EQ2 is not leveling up. Not leveling up is not gaining abilities. Not gaining abilities is a disadvantage in PvP. If the rewards for PvP are that great, this disadvantage is even more pronounced.

That’s a gross generalization, but any PvP built into EQ2 at this point would need to take the very different level spread into account. In WoW it’s safer for this sort of thinking because so many people are 60. Not so in EQ2. (it’s also safer because Blizzard sees PvP very differently than SOE).

This is easy to solve.

The zones are already grouped by level. So there should be an incentive to go fight in a zone of your appropriate level. The PvP points would be much more desirable if you kill players around your level instead of players much below you.

So this should encourage the players to group by zone. And as I said the PvE shouldn’t be a problem at all. It wasn’t a problem on WoW’s PvP servers and will be even less in my idea since it would discourage even more the ganking.

Why would you go ganking in a lower level zone if you could go in one more appropriate and challenging (and fun) that would reward you directly with PvP points?

—

The biggest problem with PvP points is what we’re already seeing in WoW: people will grind them to get foozles. It changes the motivation to PvP. It should be something people feel rewarded by after having some PvP fun. But just like XP and item rewards, eventually PvP points become the main thing to get, and therefore something to make a more efficient process out of. It’s a shame but it happens time and again.

The better the reward that can be purchased by points, the more focus players place on those points. Not ALL players, but it only takes a critical mass of them to focus on achievement exclusively to the point of excluding others.

I know that the players will game the system, but why is this bad?

It will even help to keep PvP and PvE separated since the players are encouraged to move closer to the hotspots around their level.

PvP points and rewards should be a reason to promote the fun, not to remove or derail from it. My idea just puts the point where the fun is supposed to be: near an objective to fight for, with some sort of defensive structure.

The point is to let the players fight for something instead of roaming around a zone to just gank every players on sight. It’s about giving a goal and objective to the PvP. And about offering a reward in doing so. The reward is just a way to direct the players there. It’s a guidance to create gameplay.

This already happens on DAoC and I don’t see where it’s a problem. These hotspots are also public, so everyone can join and get some fun out of them. There aren’t mandatory requirements.